Structural crack help


See this thread where we are addressing this exact issue.
 
How did they fix the cracks structurally? Putting a new layer of pebble plaster on the pool does not fix the underlying structure.

Did you get the opinion of a structural engineer on the root cause and fix?

You may need concrete staples with epoxy injection for a mechanical solid fix. This is a common concrete repair technique.

Watch


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Concrete Crack Repair Staples for Swimming Pools and Pool Decks | AquaStitch

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Very nice work!
 
Here is a thread showing the way the PB repaired a cracking pool on a slope...


Here is another crack thread. Note they tested their gunite and found it did not meet specifications.

 
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Here is a thread showing the way the PB repaired a cracking pool on a slope...


Here is another crack thread. Note they tested their gunite and found it did not meet specifications.

Thanks for the links! At least I know this is not the first time this has occurred. I'm wondering how much we should have known prior to building. Should the layperson know to get an engineering report for the soil orthat on a sloping property the pool needs to be built differently? Or are these things that we hired a professional pool builder to inform us about? I deal with ultra low nox combustion burners on boilers in California. As an "expert" in this field my customers expect me to tune their boilers those pass all air board testing and guide them through the process. I just assumed that is why we hire a pool builder who has been in the business almost fifty year. A couple weeks into this issue, I am far more knowledgeable on the subject than I ever wanted to be and would have verify that soil reports were done and I would have communicated all known with the structural engineer.
 
Bottom line is, it's not your responsibility to design and build the pool, it's the pool builders. If they built an inadequate structure, it's their responsibility to fix it. If you aren't happy with their solution, get a structural engineer to provide you with a solution. If the pool builder won't go along with that, then it's time to start talking lawyer. All of this assumes the guy doesn't declare bankruptcy and open up the following day under a new LLC!
 
I am sure there are many good pool builders out there and we mostly hear about the problem ones. Unfortunately there is no licensing or certification that separates the “professional “ pool builder from the hacks. Anyone can become a pool builder with getting the proper local licenses If any are needed.

Only when problems occur do you learn if the PB you selected is really good.

Pool engineering drawings from a distant company who never reviewed the site or local area would have been a red flag for me. I think many PB knock out their standard builds, hope for the best, and repair stuff if things show up later. Probably better for them but not the customers with the problem pools.
 
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Jay, so sorry to hear about the problems you're having with the pool. So far, the PB is responding, which is great, but that means there is no immediate legal action to be taken. You could press for a new plaster job, but at this point I'd say that might be premature, because we don't yet know if the pool is going to continue to move. Here's some things to think about or do.

- As Kim suggested, all communication should be in writing. Email is OK, certified letters are better.

- If verbal communications take place, follow them up immediately with an email that summarizes what was said or agreed to. Ask the PB to confirm receipt of the email with a reply. This in essence gets him to confirm the conversation took place and what was said. If he neglects to confirm such an email, especially after being asked to a second time, you should assume that is intentional. So at that point all verbal communication should stop, and only written communications after that. Personally, I don't rely on email for that, I use certified mail. A proper paper trail might be essential. Which brings me to the next point:

- The fix could cost anywhere between $0 to what you paid for the pool plus removing the existing one (worst case scenario). That could be high-five-figures, and quite possibly into six-figures. Treat every piece of your evidence as a commodity worth six-figures. That means duplicate everything and keep it safe, offsite (like at a friends house). Print every email and letter, two copies, one for on-site, one off-site. Store all digital data carefully and store backups offsite: pictures, saved emails, etc, everything. Copy the plans. Copy the contract. Everything duplicated offsite. You have to be very diligent about this, and keep the backups up to date. You never know what piece of paper or snapshot could make a difference should this end up in court.

- Other posters' thoughts about getting second opinions is fine, you can start to gather those if/when you need to. But be very careful NOT to initiate ANY repairs yourself. Right now the PB is responding. He's doing so as he sees fit. That is his obligation and right. You cannot initiate any repairs yourself without giving him a demand letter and then a reasonable amount of time to respond and take action. So far, he's not doing anything wrong, so you can't either.

- Now, here's the tricky part. You need to be aware of the statute of limitations for the contractor's liablitity for this discovered construction defect. The length of your warranty will come into play, but that might not be your only or best recourse. There are a slew of possible deadlines: 2, 3, 4, 10 years, and when the clock starts is also a difficult thing for us laymen to nail down. This is what you might seek a lawyer to help you determine. At 2.5 years, you may or may not have a deadline looming. And certainly now that the defect has been discovered, and the PB has been notified, the clock is ticking. And it's possible the clock started ticking when the pool was finaled. What you need to protect is that the PB doesn't limp along with semi-fixes long enough for the statute of limitations to expire, and then the pool cracks after that, and then that'll very likely be on you.

The worst worst case is if this current fix, or the next one, outlasts the statute of limitations and then the defect reappears. You would have a much weaker case, and possibly a much shorter statute of limitations, because the defect revealed itself while you could have demanded the fix. It's a catch-22 situation.

Best case, and what you should be seeking, is that the PB hires an engineer to ascertain the nature or cause of the problem, and then applies the fix. If he refuses, and claims the plaster fix is all that is needed, then you will have to determine if you want to risk the crack coming back later, and if not, then you might have to seek a third party to inspect the pool and soil, etc, to prove to yourself and the PB that more of a fix is needed.

Because the deadlines are tricky, and a little bit hard to sort out, I would not go too much longer without consulting an attorney, at least to help you find out if the statute of limitations clock is running and when does it stop. If you are going to resist or procrastinate on that advice, then I can share how to prepare a proper demand letter, which is among the first things you must do if you feel the contractor is not performing.

I haven't even mentioned this here yet, because I had a self-imposed gag order in place so that I didn't inadvertently blow my recently won judgement (I've been waiting out the appeal period). But I got the settlement check last week, so I guess it's officially over. I sued a CA contractor for a construction defect he refused to fix, and the Statute of Repose (limitation) of 10 years came into play. I spotted it just before the Statute expired and I proceeded to court and bombarded the judge with a 1" thick stack of evidence (pictures and documents, which I had protected as I advised). The defendant didn't stand a chance. Point being: (1) I practice what I preach, and (2) it is possible to sue a CA contractor up to 10 years after he finishes a build, even though his warranty was only for one year. But my home's defect was hidden, yours is not (any longer). The catch for you is to find out how long you have, and make your PB apply a satisfactory fix before then.

If he won't, then we can later talk about how to use the CA Contractors State License Board (CSLB). That's how I won a previous case against a PB. I don't think I have any worse luck with contractors than anyone else, but if crossed, I just don't accept it.
 
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You are all amazing and I truly appreciate you taking the time to respond. I will continue down the path of working with the builder all the while investigating my legal options and working with a 3rd party of necessary. Y'all provided a ton of great information.
 

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Keep us informed of how things play out. We all learn from it for the next member. And I am sure you will not be the last member in this situation.
 
Got any pics that show the cracks and their orientation with the slope of the surrounding topography?

BTW... I think it would be worth it to reach out to the CSLB just to find out about your rights through them... just so you are aware of how that process works. I find it useful to start to familiarize yourself with the process as you work with the PB. Hopefully you will never have to go down that path, but at lease you will know what things to be aware as you work with them.
 
It looks like there is a significant amount of fill.

You should watch the level to see if it changes.

I think that you're going to need to have a geotechnical engineer evaluate the situation and advise you on the best course of action.
 
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I know a geotechnical engineer named Phil Dirt. I think that he's related to Joe Dirt. But I digest. I was going to get his opinion, but he's really not that good. He only got in the business due to his name. He finished dead last in his class at the local community college/laundromat. Hopefully, you get someone qualified who knows what they're doing.
 
I know a geotechnical engineer named Phil Dirt. I think that he's related to Joe Dirt. But I digest. I was going to get his opinion, but he's really not that good. He only got in the business due to his name. He finished dead last in his class at the local community college/laundromat. Hopefully, you get someone qualified who knows what they're doing.
Hahaha! I think he helped build this pool!
 
It looks like there is a significant amount of fill.

You should watch the level to see if it changes.

I think that you're going to need to have a geotechnical engineer evaluate the situation and advise you on the best course of action.

Not to high jack thread (will post in my own build thread here soon after I gather some thoughts on our own concerns) but is there a way looking at pics to tell its a lot of fill dirt? Thank you.
 
Quick update. Have been dealing with the lady who is in charge of the service department. We sent an email over the weekend asking for an explanation as to the cause of the crack and that we were not happy with with the quality of the patch. Her reply was that it would blend over time and to contact them next march if we were still not happy. I left a voicemail for the owner asking him to contact me tomorrow and that I feel like he should come look at the pool. I am hoping to have an update tomorrow that is better than next march :)
 

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