I just bought a house with an in ground pool this year and we just recently got it up and running and converted it to salt water. First day we swam in it a couple of children said they were getting shocked when we turned the pool light on. So we turned of the breaker to the light and they were still getting shocked and we realized the ground wire to the light was getting hot somehow and putting voltage into the water even when the breaker was off. So we disconnected the light all together and boom the issue was solved or so I thought. About a week later I was getting shocked by the steps. I can only feel it if I have a small cut on my finger and I’m touching wet concrete with my other hand. I checked with a voltage tester and it was showing 2.5 volts just near the steps. I tested near the light again and was getting 0 volts. Which is strange I figured it would travel across the whole pool if it was in the water right? The other strange fact is that I get 2.5 volts when putting the red wire in the pool and the black wire on the wet concrete but if I run a ground wire from the ground outside of the concrete over to the edge of the pool and touch it the voltage dropped down to .5? Is my concrete getting a charge somehow? Is it possible whatever was affecting the pool light ground wire is causing this as well? I’ve heard about improper bonding which might be the issue but can that be fixed without ripping out the concrete. How do I know if it’s bonded correctly? There is a copper wire that runs from the pool equipment into the ground but who knows where it goes from there. The other weird thing is that I’ve checked the water for the past 6 days and gotten 0 voltage but then I checked it tonight and it was back up to 2.5 volts. I even turned off the breaker to the entire house and it’s still at 2.5 volts. I will note I live on 15 acres with my power line coming in pretty close to my pool. I figured I would call the power company tomorrow’s to see if maybe there is grounding issue at the power pool which is only about 50-75ft from the edge of my pool concrete. Pool is probably 30 years old and I have no idea if this was an issue with the previous homeowner as well or not because he said he didn’t use the pool the last 2 seasons. Maybe this was why! But I also never tested it before the salt system was installed either. Sorry I know this is long winded but wanted to be sure to give all the details. I’ve seen lots of older stories like this but never seem to find any answers or fixes. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Stray Voltage in Pool
- Thread starter spencia98gt
- Start date
The shock you are getting is a bonding issue. A voltage of 2.5 V is significant. With your pool being 30 years old, it's possible or likely that the bonding wasn't done to the pool deck (concrete) or stairs, etc. Your volt meter shows a voltage and therefore even if the bonding grid was installed, it isn't working properly. The salt you added made it worse and made it more conductive and possibly pushed it over the threshold where you can now feel it.
The copper wire to the pump may or may not be part of the bonding system. Only investigation will determine where it goes.
I wouldn't use the pool until you get a qualified electrician out there that is familiar with pools and pool bonding. You will need to vet the electricians as many aren't familiar will pools and diagnosing bonding issues. They will need to test and trace to see what, if anything, is bonded. Also look for stray voltages in the area. If you are far from other neighbors, it shouldn't be as hard to locate the source. Once it is located, you may or may not be able to do anything about it though.
Ultimately you will need to make sure the pool is bonded properly, and this may require cutting into the deck or replacing it altogether.
Did you ever hear back from the power company?
The copper wire to the pump may or may not be part of the bonding system. Only investigation will determine where it goes.
I wouldn't use the pool until you get a qualified electrician out there that is familiar with pools and pool bonding. You will need to vet the electricians as many aren't familiar will pools and diagnosing bonding issues. They will need to test and trace to see what, if anything, is bonded. Also look for stray voltages in the area. If you are far from other neighbors, it shouldn't be as hard to locate the source. Once it is located, you may or may not be able to do anything about it though.
Ultimately you will need to make sure the pool is bonded properly, and this may require cutting into the deck or replacing it altogether.
Did you ever hear back from the power company?
Power company said everything looked good on their end. Good neutral coming into the house and good ground coming off the pole. Said it would make more sense if we had underground cables than overhead. So not much help. I also just contacted a pool company who is going to send their electrician out to take a look. I just feel like I’m going round and round with all these electricians and this is just becoming a money pit. What are your thought on getting rid of the salt system and going back to all chlorine? Would that help? Previous owner said they never had a shocking problem (whether that is true or not) the only thing I’ve changed is converted it to salt now.
Salt may have made the issue more noticeable, but going back to chlorine won’t fix the issues. There will still be bonding issues and a chlorine pool still has salt in it.
mguzzy
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If you you just bought the house did you get a home warranty as a part of the deal? some people do, some people don't, and how much coverage you get out of them really varies. I got a lot of coverage out of my home warranty even for pool related issues. So I thought I bring up that option to hopefully offset the old money pit scenario.
Yeah, you will need to get an electrician that does pools and knows how to diagnosis these things. There was a rather long thread about a year ago where they were chasing stray voltages that seemed to be intermittent and it was coming from the neighbors air conditioning or something bizarre like that. So keep a log of when and where on the pool you are seeing it and you might be able to correlate it with stuff that is powered up on the pool or elsewhere. You definitely don't want to go in until its been resolved. good luck
Yeah, you will need to get an electrician that does pools and knows how to diagnosis these things. There was a rather long thread about a year ago where they were chasing stray voltages that seemed to be intermittent and it was coming from the neighbors air conditioning or something bizarre like that. So keep a log of when and where on the pool you are seeing it and you might be able to correlate it with stuff that is powered up on the pool or elsewhere. You definitely don't want to go in until its been resolved. good luck
+1. I can’t find the thread listed above but searching for ‘shock’ results in too many pool store / newb threads. Search for tingle instead. Like Guzz said, these can be miserable to diagnose/fix.
www.troublefreepool.com
Google search results
www.troublefreepool.com
I do have a home warranty but it says it doesn’t cover any pool electrical stuff only pump or other equipment so I haven’t even bothered with them. I was testing for voltage earlier today and wasn’t getting anything but I just checked again this evening and back to around 2.5 volts again. This was about the same time I noticed it last night. I’m not sure how to even go about diagnosing an issue at a neighbors house though. Currently we have no ladders or rails in the pool but I noticed I’m bowing the most current in the areas where the step rail sleeves are, the ladder sleeves, and the metal sleeves that an old slide used to be in. Touching the black wire to the metal sleeve or wet concrete around it is giving me 2.5 volts. Checking everywhere else around the pool is showing .05 or less.
drsipe
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- Jul 24, 2020
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I don't know if this will help you, but it has some very good troubleshooting practices.
I am not an electrical expert but you may want to review the below PDF and educate yourself while you are finding an electrician. It was eye opening for me. I don’t have a bonding issue but found it while lurking around on the forum.
Mike Holt- SWIMMING POOLS, SPAS, HOT TUBS, FOUNTAINS, AND SIMILAR INSTALLATIONS
Mike holt also has a lot of videos on YouTube on grounding vs bonding as well as pool bonding. This is just one of them Mike holt pool bonding video
Mike Holt- SWIMMING POOLS, SPAS, HOT TUBS, FOUNTAINS, AND SIMILAR INSTALLATIONS
Mike holt also has a lot of videos on YouTube on grounding vs bonding as well as pool bonding. This is just one of them Mike holt pool bonding video
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,097
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- 35000
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- Plaster
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- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
You have stray voltage around your property. Many properties have stray voltage. It is the nature of electricity and the electrical grid.
Your bonding grid around the pool is inadequate. If the bonding grid was doing its job everything around the pool would be at the same potential.
So you have two unrelated problems. With a proper functioning bonding grid you would not care about the stray voltages.
You can look to fix your bonding grid or eliminate the stray voltages or both.
The stray voltages are probably not coming from your pool equipment. They may be coming from problems with your house electrical system or your neighbors house or the electrical company's feeds surrounding your property or streetlight on the road.
Finding stray voltage sources takes a lot of detective work. Here are two threads to give you ideas of what you are looking for:
Here is a thread that has been going on for 6 years trying to find the source of a tingle - A Slight Shock.
Here the voltage source was a streetlight connected to the house power line Bonding Issue In A Pool.
Taking the Mystery Out of Equipotential Bonding Requirements for Swimming Pools is a good primer to understand equipotential bonding in pools.
A good reference is from Mike Holt Enterprises on Article 680—Swimming Pools, Spas, Hot Tubs, Fountains, and Similar Installations.
Also How to Verify That a Pool is Safe from Electric Shock – In Accordance with the National Electrical Code from Mike Holt.
Your bonding grid around the pool is inadequate. If the bonding grid was doing its job everything around the pool would be at the same potential.
So you have two unrelated problems. With a proper functioning bonding grid you would not care about the stray voltages.
You can look to fix your bonding grid or eliminate the stray voltages or both.
The stray voltages are probably not coming from your pool equipment. They may be coming from problems with your house electrical system or your neighbors house or the electrical company's feeds surrounding your property or streetlight on the road.
Finding stray voltage sources takes a lot of detective work. Here are two threads to give you ideas of what you are looking for:
Here is a thread that has been going on for 6 years trying to find the source of a tingle - A Slight Shock.
Here the voltage source was a streetlight connected to the house power line Bonding Issue In A Pool.
Taking the Mystery Out of Equipotential Bonding Requirements for Swimming Pools is a good primer to understand equipotential bonding in pools.
A good reference is from Mike Holt Enterprises on Article 680—Swimming Pools, Spas, Hot Tubs, Fountains, and Similar Installations.
Also How to Verify That a Pool is Safe from Electric Shock – In Accordance with the National Electrical Code from Mike Holt.
So yeah I assumed my bonding was the issue. Does anyone know what the process of fixing a bonding grid on an issue existing I ground pool? Does all the concrete have to be ripped out? Can it just be cut into? Can the grid be installed around the outside of the concrete?
I’m not super versed in electricity but I know some. Out of curiosity I went out to my power pole to test the ground wire running down the pole. I stuck a copper wire in the ground and attached my black common reader to it and then I touched the red wire to the copper wire on the power pole and it was showing around 2 volts? Is that normal or should that grounding wire not have any current running through it? The power company was literally out here for about 10 minutes yesterday before they decided there was no problem on there end so who knows what all he actually checked.
I’m not super versed in electricity but I know some. Out of curiosity I went out to my power pole to test the ground wire running down the pole. I stuck a copper wire in the ground and attached my black common reader to it and then I touched the red wire to the copper wire on the power pole and it was showing around 2 volts? Is that normal or should that grounding wire not have any current running through it? The power company was literally out here for about 10 minutes yesterday before they decided there was no problem on there end so who knows what all he actually checked.
Evidently concrete is considered a conductor (who would of thought that!) so it needs a bonded copper wire embedded in it all around the pool, you then bond that wire to all the pool equipment bonding lugs, which also happens to be grounded electrically. But don’t confuse bonding and grounding.
- Jul 3, 2013
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You can connect you existing concrete into a new bonding grid... You will need to find the rebar in the deck on all 4 corners of the deck... You will then connect a bare #8 copper wire to those 4 pieces of rebar and take it back to your pump and connect it to the SWG, pump, and any other system you have... If you have any ladders or any kind of metal within 5 feet of the pool that bonding wire will have to be connected to them also....
Hope and prey that they connected the pool rebar to the deck rebar... if they did not you will have to get into the pool concrete shell and connect it in 4 places to the deck or the copper wire...
As easy as this sounds it can be painful... always remember bonding is not grounding...
Hope and prey that they connected the pool rebar to the deck rebar... if they did not you will have to get into the pool concrete shell and connect it in 4 places to the deck or the copper wire...
As easy as this sounds it can be painful... always remember bonding is not grounding...
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,097
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- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Check where your water bond is and that that you have a good water bond.
Does your deck have rebar in it that you can tie into?
Concrete is porous and water makes the concrete conductive.
For a proper bonding grid in the deck it needs to be embedded in the concrete. There is copper mesh made to go into concrete to bond it.
3′ WIDE X 100′ LONG COPPER EQUIPOTENTIAL BONDING GRID W/KIT <span> Case Qty. 1</span> - Consolidated Manufacturing
KIT INCLUDES 20 #8 SPLIT BOLTS, 16 METAL STAKES Case Qty. 1 AVAILABLE IN CUSTOM LENGTHS ; 50’. 125’, 150’, ETC.
www.cmiwebsite.com
Wire Mesh for Bonding Grid
I am told by my City inspector that I need to have a 6" squared steel wire mesh as an equipotential Bonding grid around the perimeter of the pool. Question is, where can I get it from? I need approx. 100 feet.
www.troublefreepool.com
Water, pool shell through the rebar, concrete deck. any metal railings, pump, heater, SWG, and any other pool equipment all needs to be connected in one bonding grid.
In a perfect world there should be no voltage on the ground. The electrical system is often not perfect.
Be noisy. Complain to your PUC that you have a safety issue.
See if you can find an electrician who worked for the electrical utility. He is likely to understand the problem and also know of internal contacts to talk to.
You need to get the attention of the right people in your electrical utility,
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Just wanted to follow up on this. I'm still working to resolve the issue. I have another pool electrician coming out this week to try and test the continuity of everything around the pool. I did decide to open the pool light junction box again to ensure no disconnected wires were touching or anything and I realized there is a bonding wire that runs from the niche into the junction box but that's it. It's not connected to anything else. So I decided to take a copper splice bolt and splice a copper wire in and then connect it to where the pump and booster pump are bonded together. Before I did this I was reading 3.9 volts in the water by the steps once I connected that bonding wire that voltage dropped down to almost nothing so I thought I might have finally found the issue as the water wasn't bonded since the light niche is the only metal in my water. But then I preceded to check the voltage of different areas around the pool and they all went from not much (.5 volts or so) up to 1.7 volts but right at the steps was less than .5. So then I disconnected that bonding wire again and the steps jumped right back up to 3.9 but everywhere else dropped back down to .5 or so. So clearly bonding the light niche/water did something but I still don't really know what this means. Hoping the electrician that comes this week will have more answers.
- Jul 3, 2013
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That is a great result.. where you need the bonding at the stairs it took the voltage down.. It is weird that it went up on another part of the pool but electricity can be weird..
drsipe
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- Jul 24, 2020
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I have a really dumb question. Did or does your pool have a metal ladder?
I believe that my water is bonded trough the stainless steel ladder. I remember that the the anchors for all the railings and ladders are bonded, and the only metal in my pool is the stainless steel ladder.
If your pool was built similarly and you had a metal ladder, but the ladder was removed or replaced with a non-metal ladder, that could also help explain your stray voltage.
I believe that my water is bonded trough the stainless steel ladder. I remember that the the anchors for all the railings and ladders are bonded, and the only metal in my pool is the stainless steel ladder.
If your pool was built similarly and you had a metal ladder, but the ladder was removed or replaced with a non-metal ladder, that could also help explain your stray voltage.
- Jul 3, 2013
- 9,027
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- 15000
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- Vinyl
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- CircuPool SJ-40
Not a dumb question actually a really smart one, something we have not thought of yet
sorry i thought I mentioned it at some point but no there currently isn't a ladder in the pool but there are metal sleeves where the ladder would go, the step rail, and there was an old slide that was just cut off at the concrete so the metal legs are still in the concrete. But the only metal touching the water currently is the light.
I do feel like most of the time when I'm getting higher voltage readings in the water it's near where all of those metal sleeves are in the concrete. Not sure if that's a good indicator that they aren't bonded or not though