Still stuck in SLAM after 2 weeks

[totolos]

Hi All,

I am a relatively new pool owner and have used TFP exclusively for all my pool chemistry education. We have a saltwater, fiberglass pool with an autocover which stays closed 99% of the time. This spring is only my second time to open our pool. Last year, we opened to a perfectly clear pool with a little bit of FC remaining from the offseason. This year I opened to a slimy and cloudy (not green) pool with the following readings:

FC=0.0
CC=0.0
CH=150
TA=100
pH=6.8
CYA=0

So remembering all the advice on this forum, I started the SLAM by dumping in liquid chlorine (between 7.5% and 10%) that I got from various sources. To my surprise, the FC was dropping back to near-zero immediately with the CC going through the roof. After dumping in 17 gallons and still having near-zero FC, I did some more research on TFP to conclude that I was probably dealing with Amonia. The fact that my CYA opened up to 0 was a very telling clue that I'll remember in the future.

So after 2 days of dumping in lots of liquid chlorine, 4lbs of Borax for pH, and 4.5 lbs of Stabilizer, I ended up with the following readings:

FC=15.0
CC=1.5
CH=150
TA=120
pH=7.2
CYA=30

The water is noticeably cloudy, although much better than when we opened. Now here is my problem. I have maintained this FC count for 12 days (plus 2 days of initial Amonia removal) and nothing is budging. I will lose a little bit (1-2ppm) overnight so I turned the SWG on to 10%, keeping FC between 15-17 at all times. The CC stays between 1.0-1.5 and the cloudiness isn't getting better. Without any noticeable improvements over the last 10 days, I'm wondering if this is working. I know you are all going to tell me to be patient and wait it out but am I really going to wake up to a crystal clear pool one morning? I feel a little bit insane for doing the same thing every day and expecting something to change.

Thanks in advance,
George

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

It is working. Be patient.

Turn off your SWG as it does not let you properly gauge your chlorine consumption and progress.

It often helps people to track all their tests and chemical additions using PoolMath and share the PM logs so we can review it.

And take pics of one area, like the steps, and post it every day or two and usually you can see small progress every few days as the water gets clearer.

Just test FC and CC during the SLAM Process. And occasionally CYA to confirm you are really at 30.

I wonder about your testing as with a FC of over 10 your pH test should read high and not 7.2. The pH test is not valid with FC over 10.

Are you testing FC with a 10ml or 25ml sample?

 

[totolos]

Hey Allen,

I am testing FC with a 10ml sample. As for pH, it was 6.8 before I started slam. I added 4 lbs of Borax which would have brought it up to 7.0 but I didn't test it again until the slam was underway. So you are probably right that pH is reading high at 7.2. I turn off the SWG every couple of nights just to see how much I'm losing overnight which was usually about 1-2ppm. I ended up keeping it on to assure it stays at shock level and keep me from messing with the liquid chlorine every day. I suppose you are saying that if I turn the SWG back off that I will get a better sense for how much chlorine is actually getting consumed. I can see where that would be useful.

If you were to see my logs for the past 10 days, it would be identical. FC between 14-16 and CC between 1.0-1.5. I haven't tested CYA in the last 7 days.

I just didn't expect there to be a continuous consumption of chlorine for so long when the pool is always covered. In fact, I started to wonder if every time I roll the autocover in and out that I was pulling in more contamination?

 

[ajw22]

Here is some tough love - the SLAM Process works. Every time. If the process is followed exactly. It is science.

When the SLAM Process is not working it is because you are not following the process. Where exactly I can't tell because you just profess that everything is good.

Either your testing is off or your FC management is off. Or you are taking shortcuts that foul up the process.

When people post everything they are doing we usually point out the little things they are doing wrong that make the difference. That is why PoolMath and log sharing were created to help.

You are free to do things your way. It is not clear you are doing things the TFP way.

 

[totolos]

Since I thought I was doing things the TFP way, I could use a pointer where you think I'm deviating. I have turned off the SWG now and will continue to log FC, TC, and added chlorine. What else should I be doing? Oh, I do have one admission. I only brush the walls of the pools every 2-3 days since they look clean and it's been raining during most of the slam.

 

[ajw22]

Download PoolMath

Share your logs

Log ALL tests

Log All chemicals added

Post pics of your pool every other day of the same area

All that will let us follow along and see what you are doing right or wrong.

 

[Newdude]

I know you are all going to tell me to be patient and wait it out but am I really going to wake up to a crystal clear pool one morning?

Yes and no. It will not *poof* clear. It is a slow and gradual improvement to remove all the dead algae. Once you go cloudy/blue, most of the battle becomes a filtering fight and not a chemistry battle. But you keep the FC up to not loose any ground.

what size is your filter ? Have you cleaned the cartridges?

 

[ajw22]

Oh, I do have one admission. I only brush the walls of the pools every 2-3 days since they look clean and it's been raining during most of the slam.

The purpose of brushing the walls is not to keep them clean. It is to breakup the biofilm on the algae, that you likely cannot see, to allow the chlorine to attack it. Not brushing daily just sets the chlorine back from being effective against the algae.

The more often you test and top off your FC and the more often you brush the faster the SLAM Process goes.

Look for places algae hides like around ladders or light niches.

 

[clduncan]

I had to perform a SLAM a couple years ago mine took 15 days staying on top of it. Don't give up and keep doing what the experts say, it will work!

 

[totolos]

1. It sounds like I need to brush more. Will do.
2. I have a Jandy cartridge filter with 4x 340 cylinders inside. The pressure never deviates from the 15 psi, the "Clean setting". Maybe that makes sense since it's only been 2 weeks of cloudy cleanup?
3. I have transferred my meticulous spreadsheet notes to Pool Math App here in case anyone is interested (PoolMath Logs)
4. I don't have any niches in the pool. However, rolling the autocover into a dirty chamber and back out seems like something to think about.

 

[ajw22]

I don't have any niches in the pool. However, rolling the autocover into a dirty chamber and back out seems like something to think about.

Leave your cover open for the duration of the SLAM Process.

The bottom of the pool cover interface with the water coupled with the heat of the sun on the cover creates an algae breeding ground on the bottom of the cover and top of the water.

 

[ajw22]

I see you added clarifier to the water. That will gum up your cartridge filter and reduce its effectiveness.

You should clean your cartridge after using clarifier.

Clarifier - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Cartridge Filter Use and Care - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[totolos]

Yeah, I did just add a little bit of clarifier a few days ago to see if any change of cloudiness would be observed. Nothing changed, by the way. I also did it since I planned to open my filter this weekend to make sure there were no leaks causing filter bypass ... and I'd clean them off in the process. My pressure never seems to change, even all of last year. I just figured that a pool that was always covered just didn't get that dirty.

 

[IceShadow]

Pools that are blue and cloudy and don’t improve during the SLAM are usually either a filtration issue or a “algae hiding somewhere” issue. Check the filter as you mentioned, and do you have any ladders that could hide algae? No light niches you said - skimmer throat/weir door?

 

[totolos]

Hey Dustin,

Thanks for chiming in. I do not have a ladder but I do have a few lights that I didn't think of when looking for niches. I will do a little extra scrubbing around them today. Based on this thread, I suspect that my lack of attention to daily brushing might have something to do with the slow progress. I did a good one last night and saw my FC drop a little more than normal this morning (probably expected after stirring things up). I also let the pool air out for a few hours by opening the autocover.

What are your thoughts on what to do with an autocover during a slam? I went with the covered option on the idea that less debris and sunlight would be helpful but Allen suggested that a warm cover might make the algae happy. If the consensus is uncovered, I think we should have the SLAM procedure updated to make it more clear.

 

[IceShadow]

I would leave it uncovered to ensure the CCs burn off in the sun. Also could you potentially have algae on the underside of the cover?

 

[totolos]

So I've done a few things, all of which have likely contributed to some progress.

1. Cleaned the cartridge filter which wasn't really that dirty but some of the plumbing was not as tight as it could have been.
2. Brushed and vacuumed the pool daily, even though no visible need to do so.
3. Opened the cover for several hours a day to let the pool breathe
4. Turn on the deck jets to encourage aeration
5. Turned off the SWG and only use liquid chlorine

At this point, my OCLT has shown no loss for two nights in a row and the water is pretty clear, maybe just a light haze remaining. However, I still have a CC of 1.0-1.5 for the past 13 days straight, even when there is no loss in FC. I hope that just a little more patience is needed and my first SLAM will come to a successful end, after what has already been 16 days at this point.

Just to make sure that I'm testing CC property with the TF-100 kit ... After adding testing FC, then add 5 drops of R-0003 and one drop of R-0871, I still see a very, very slight pink which completely goes away with the second drop of R-0871. You'd call that CC of 1.0, right?

 

[Lilypad]

I do have a few lights that I didn't think of when looking for niches. I will do a little extra scrubbing around them today.

Just to be sure....did you remove the light from the niche and scrub inside the niche? Dustin has you
covered, so stay patient and persistent!

Edit: AND @ajw22 !!!

 

[ajw22]

However, I still have a CC of 1.0-1.5 for the past 13 days straight, even when there is no loss in FC.

Leave your cover open for longer to burn off the CC's.

I suggested you keep your cover open for the duration of the SLAM but seems like you choose not to.

 

[totolos]

I scrubbed around the lights but did not actually remove them since I've never done that and didn't want to break anything. Do these things simply screw off? How about wires, etc?

As for the cover, I just can't keep it open overnight because of safety concerns. We live in a suburban neighborhood and my fence has not yet been installed (for a variety of annoying reasons) so I didn't want to leave it unattended all night.