still staining liner and plastics

[Punchyp]

This story is a saga, and I am beyond lost.
I'm on the 4th asorbic acid treatment to lift stains/browning. it cleans it, but only lasts for 5 days and comes right back.
PH is 7.2, FC 3.0, CC 0.5, TA 120, CYA 104, CH 60

I have used at least 3 quarts of Metal free/ metal pro. StainX products after the asorbic acid powder.

11,000 gal vinyl pool, paper cartridge filter. I pumped out 8,000 gallons in two different pump downs and refills 3 weeks ago. City water from hose used to refill with a filter on the end of hose that's supposed to remove metals.
Pool store test yesterday showed metal count at 0.6ppm, they said that should not be enough to stain the pool.
I have tiny little white powder flakes rinsing out of my filter when I hose it off, what is that? could it be the sequestered metals or the asorbic acid?

I have used only liquid chlorine, with a couple of tabs to maintain while im at work.
I followed the instructions on this website in regards to the metal stain removal.
I never got my FC down to 0 but the PH is 7.2 as stated in the article, I have not slammed/shocked the pool yet.
just been adding liquid Chlorine to maintain the lower FC levels.
The water is clear, might be a tiny bit hazy.
21 years with this pool and this staining started last year and wont stop.

 

[ajw22]

Iron will not show in your water the pool store test if it si bound to the sequestrant. Chlorine will eventually oxidize the sequestrant and release the iron and the stains return. The only way to end the cycle is to filter out the iron using polyfill in your skimmers.

Do a search on "polyfill" using the bar at the top and then click on Google Search and you will find many threads discussing using polyfill.

 

[Punchyp]

I put some polyfill in the skimmer. We'll see.
The water is clear but staining returned today. its 5 days past A.A. treatment and quart of metal pro.
I'm a little confused because one article said the iron has to be in a state that the polyfill can catch it and to bring pool to slam level and let it turn green. This saga is unbelievable.

 

[Punchyp]

This is a 2 month saga, so I cant tell everything that's happened, but two nights ago the brown stains came back so we added a tiny amount Asorbic Acid Powder at the steps and near the in-wall laddeer, waited a while added 1 qt of metal free, PH was 7.1 Fc was 2.5 water is clear. Got home yesterday and it looked great stains all gone again, but a slight haze to the water, the FC was down to 1.5 and PH 7.0. so I put in ONE QUART of 10% Liquid Shock, 2hrs later the white in-wall ladder was turning brown again. that quart raised the FC to 3.5.
I've had a CULATOR bag in the pump pot for over a month, Ive added over a gallon of sequestering agents, kept the ph low, keeping the FC way below the pool math recommended level and I have not slammed, the CC has never tested over 0.5. Even put some polyfill in skimmer for 24 hours no color on it.
Another weird thing is I've replaced the entire volume of water in 2 pump outs and refills and my CYA is still over 100.
How is that even possible? I''ve been chlorinating with liquid bleach and only used maybe 6 or 8 tabs in chlorinator over the last 2 months. I'm so lost right now.

 

[IceShadow]

Where do you get your test results from?

 

[Punchyp]

self testing with the taylor k-2006 test kit. The pool store had my CYA at 104, the test kit doesn't read over 100 but was definitely over 100 the 4 times I've checked it since refilling the pool.

 

[ajw22]

self testing with the taylor k-2006 test kit. The pool store had my CYA at 104, the test kit doesn't read over 100 but was definitely over 100 the 4 times I've checked it since refilling the pool.

When CYA test over 100 you have to do the 50% dilution test as in step 8 below. Pool store can only test up to 100 also. Your CYA as something much greater and probably still is.

CYA - Cyanuric Acid Test

Cyanuric Acid (CYA) is the chemical name for what is commonly referred to as Stabilizer … Read more…

www.troublefreepool.com

If your CYA level is 90 or higher, repeat the test adjusting the procedure as follows:

1. Fill the mixing bottle to the lower mark with pool water.
2. Continue filling the mixing bottle to the upper mark with tap water.
3. Shake briefly to mix.
4. Pour off half of the contents of the mixing bottle, so it is again filled to the lower mark.
5. Continue the test normally from step 2, but multiply the final result by two.

 

[ajw22]

You really need to break your cycle to get a permanent fix. You need to a an AA treatment to lift the stains then immediately drain the pool and refill it with fresh water from water trucks. It will cost you some money and put your liner at risk so you need to decide if it is worth it.

I think you have such a chemical stew that only fresh water will fix it.

 

[Punchyp]

I have a feeling any pool water trucks around here are not de-ironing their water, probably filling truck from a municipal hydrant using the same water im using.
How would they get their water iron free?

 

[ajw22]

Ask them where they get their water from and ask for a sample you can have tested.

Talk to pool builders where they guy their fresh water from.

 

[duraleigh]

This thread should take a collective deep breath and positively identify the iron source.

Iron in a pool is most always from a well but if I read you right, you are saying your water source is municipal, correct?

Well, they can give you a report on the condition of the water they sell to you including iron content. Please get that report and tell us what they say.

Do you have a water softener installed for your household water?

Got a pic of your water and an idea of your daily chlorine usage. Are you absolutely positive you are not dealing with algae?

 

[ajw22]

In my area iron was found at the tap due to old iron pipes in the distribution system while municipal reports said it was iron free.

 

[duraleigh]

ajw22 makes a great point. That's the kind of stuff you have to ferret out and then we can all help make a careful decision.

 

[ajw22]

Talking about municipal water reports. I was on a State Grand Jury where we heard a case on falsifying water quality reports at a municipality. The way the case began was a homeowner tested water at their tap and found "perc" in it and reported the discrepancy to investigators. I will never trust municipal water reports. You have to take the water out of your tap and send it to a lab for testing to know what you are getting.

 

[Punchyp]

jeeze, I'm not taking tap water to an independent lab. that cant be cheap
My pool water is clear, no hint of any color except on the plastic ladder, skimmer opening, vinyl steps into pool, and the return jets.
I'm sure it's all over the liner, its just seems worse at or near the surface. I wonder if old plastics, and a liner that's been bleached out due to high chlorine for the last 4 or 5 years are more suseptable to staining?
Our Municipal water comes from big wells but I'm betting there are old iron piles in this system somewhere.
I don't have a water softener. My daily chlorine use now is about a quart or 1.5 quarts a day to keep it between 1 and 5.
its been very hot too, I'm losing one point over night pretty consistently, and 2 to 4 during the daylight hours.
Here's another weird thing, I did the diluted CYA test. its still at 120! and I replaced the entire volume of water in two separate pump downs earlier this spring. it must have been about 500 in previous years. I had to keep my Chlorine between 5 and 10 or I would lose the pool and it would go cloudy.