Still cloudy after months of effort

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harumpf!!

well it was a thought. :)

have to do some CSI on the filter itself. If it's dirty on the inner part then it might be blowing by. But maybe, in the end it just doesn't matter. If your water gets clear that's what matters.
 
Hi pa,
This filter turned out to be Frankenstein's monster. The locking knob was from a C900 filter (similar, but the shaft of the knob was too short for this C1750), and the guide cone and locking knob hardware were gone altogether.
I am guessing that the previous owner had some other cleaning system, as Hayward said (for the second out of three calls) that the guide cone seals the top.
The water from the return seems to be more clear, with the exception of the millions of tiny air bubbles coming with it. I will track down the leak on the suction side (hopefully, it is the filter basket lid) and post again.
The tech said I could try a half cup of DE in the skimmer to help filter more minute stuff...


Thanks,
David
 
DE in a cartridge filter is not considered a good idea. My manual even says to do it, but what I would worry about is that it will get stuck in the filter and block it up. In mine it isn't quite as much worrisome cuz I have four cartridges. In yours I would worry about blockage. I seem to remember you have a few cartridges spare, so it could be worth a try.
 
If the filter is working it should clear the pool in 24 hours. I think mine has a 4 hour 100% turn over in 4 hours with my pump. Otherwise maybe you have some other balance problems. Good luck in any case.
 

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Hi WJ,
Thanks. I am all for not wasting time, especially since the pool is not at our house, but a short drive away. I am still trying to gain perspective as to what this filter can (and cannot do) versus the sand filter I removed last year.
In the past, I would get the pool clear by bring FC up high enough to start to clear the water. I would then use floc to get all the remaining stuff to the bottom, where it be be removed by vacuuming to waste. I would then refill the poll, and usually) have little difficulty for the remainder of the season.
A prolonged drought has made draining any portion of the pool to waste an extremely unpopular (and if the drought continues, potentially illegal) option. I switched to the cartridge filter in the hopes of saving water and dealing with the mess through filter cartridge maintenance. Obviously, that is a whole 'nother thing... and I am becoming an expert on how to spray dead algae off of a cartridge.
Through the judicious use of clarifier and also a slime bag, the water is clear, with visibility to the main drain when the solar cover is first removed. There is sufficient "stuff" still in the pool to cause some cloudiness, but even then visibility is good to about 4 feet -- much better than previously. I have focused mainly on FAc, and have kept it high throughout the summer in the hopes of killing any remaining organics. CYA is at 40, and PH is in range. The other results are

CH. 220
TA. 250
CC. <1

Once again, I welcome any perspective you can share. This has been very educational, starting with the fact that I have learned the hard way that I need to cover my pool for the winter, or clean it frequently. The battle this past Spring against all the stuff in the bottom took too long and a lot of money in chemicals...


Thanks,
David
 
Hi All,
To tie off this thread....

Pool looks great now, thanks to a combination of effort, the Slime Bag and (maybe?) the replacement of a few parts on the filter itself.

TFP also helped immeasurably, especially since none of you could see the pool, and had to rely on my doing everything needed.

I love this site because you guys really do take the mystery out of pool maintenance and allow the owner to understand and take control back from the pool store in terms of what is necessary to solve issues and get back to the goal of actually enjoying the pool. Thank you!

I would also like to ask some of the more dogmatic members of the "Learned Ones Council" to remember that there may be several ways to solve an issue. My water clarity issue was helped tremendously by the use of clarifier., despite reading plenty of posts warning that the use of this evil substance was the root cause for anything from leprosy to the behavior of "kids these days". I took comfort in reading what Richard (and a few others) said ("there is a place for clarifier, if used correctly") and proceeded cautiously, with great results.

You guys are incredibly smart people with a wealth of experience. Thanks again for sharing some of each with me. My kid and his friends are absolutely impressed with the pool now!


Thanks,
David
 
Wait, you mean to say that clarifier didn't cause my halitosis? Great, now what am I going to do? :)
I understand what you are saying, though. What makes it so hard is that for 98% of pools, the dogma works. It makes it hard to break the pattern, but I'm working on the true believers. One cloudy pool at a time.
 
2002sheds said:
Hi All,

I would also like to ask some of the more dogmatic members of the "Learned Ones Council" to remember that there may be several ways to solve an issue. My water clarity issue was helped tremendously by the use of clarifier., despite reading plenty of posts warning that the use of this evil substance was the root cause for anything from leprosy to the behavior of "kids these days". I took comfort in reading what Richard (and a few others) said ("there is a place for clarifier, if used correctly") and proceeded cautiously, with great results.
Click to expand...

I just wanted to "clarify" things on behalf of our "dogmatic members". We discourage the use of clarifiers because too many people try to use them as a magic bullet. They do have their place, but it is not when a slam is recommended, or when equipment is not functioning correctly. Since the majority of cloudy pool problems are from algae, clarifiers won't help. That is why we rarely recommend their use.
 
Hi Zea3 and Dave,
Dave, I forgot to mention that a recent report said that clarifier was initially discovered in Roswell, New Mexico in the late 40's, and no one can explain its existence or sudden appearance... :)
Zea3, you are actually speaking to my exact point. The cloudiness issue I had was due to the dead algae blowing through the filter. So the SLAM process worked, but the equipment (while complete and operating correctly) didn't clear the water by itself.
Even Hayward said on their website (and when I spoke to a tech) that dead algae was too fine to be trapped by the cartridge. For all the things I did correctly according to TFP, I simply did not know to go with Hayward's advice regarding the use of clarifier.
My goal is not to stir the pot, but point out that the majority of information on TFP is about how bad clarifier is. In my experience, it has its place. I totally understand why you would give the advice to focus on the other things fist. When there are so many moving parts, it could make solving some of these issues very difficult. In my case, I would have benefitted by hearing that this step (adding a small amount of clarifier) after the algae was stopped via SLAM would possibly help clear the water sooner. I would have cleared the pool weeks earlier.
Again, my comments are only meant to add to the conversation, not suggest that anything was done wrong. A novice such as myself turns theirself over to the TFP process, and through the generosity of all of you guys, follows your advice. Your opinions hold great weight, so anything negative "(Don't trust the pool store") becomes instruction... Reading Richard's post(s) about clarifier helped, but I was puzzled about the lack of consensus. I had to think more critically and "ignore" some of the well-meaning advice that I read on other posts, and it felt like I was doing something "wrong", since it had not been universally accepted by The Council :)
Like I said earlier, I am extremely grateful for the fantastic advice given on this site. It truly is invaluable, and I appreciate very much the fact that people such as yourselves would take time out of their days to help a rookie like myself and so many others.
Through your guidance, I feel as though I can keep this pool looking (and being) its best.

THANKS,
David
 
At the end of the day, only you know your pool and all the parameters that are affecting it. So, you have to take what you read here and apply it with what you know and learn first hand. People cannot expect to come to a message board, and have people diagnose their pool from the living room, when the information provided is incomplete. TFP provides a methodology that resolves 90% of the cases of cloudy pools. Beyond that, it's up to each individual to learn and apply knowledge to resolving the other 10% of the 'abnormal' cases. Those abnormal cases could be due to unknown faulty equipment, or some foreign material undetected through normal tests, or some piece of key information regarded as not important and not shared. I used flocculant in my first slam because I had clay silt in my pool and I read on my own what the filtering capabilities of a Sand Filter are and why Clay silt would pass right through. In your case you found that your Hayward filter is insufficient and that a clarifier was needed.

So, for the 90%, using clarifier and flocculants are incorrect until a proper SLAM has been attempted. Most of the posts suggesting that clarifier isn't the proper course of action is right 90% of the time. Your puzzlement that a consensus isn't reached is comical if you've spent anytime on any message board on the internet. There's never a consensus. There's opinions, sprinkled with fact and experience and most are well meaning ones, but you have to read and research independently to determine your own best course of action. To blindly follow any message board and expect 100% accuracy is a little naive, IMO.
 
But, actually, the point was made, often, that if your filtration is sufficient, a floc isn't necessary. So if the floc is done, and later the filtration issue isn't resolved, the problem will likely present itself again. That, to me, is the basis behind the theory generally used here.
 

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