Stenner pump install planning

[jwesleyh]

Hi all,
I recently ordered a Stenner EconT pump and reservoir that I'm installing to replace a Pentair Rainbow tab chlorinator. A pic of my setup is attached (with the tab chlor still connected). A couple questions on the plumbing and wiring plan:

1. Is there a way to connect the 1/4 inch Stenner line to the Pentair saddle clamp taps used with the chlorinator? I've capped the saddle clamps (pic) and will abandon them unless there's a way to utilize the old inflow clamp for the Stenner injection point. Otherwise, I plan to use the T where the cleaner pump currently connects to the pool return and buy a reducer bushing to fit the Stenner injector fitting. I no longer use the pressure side cleaner (bought a robot), so can remove pump and plug the line.
2. On the electrical side, I bought a 120v pump to have the option of running off a nearby GFI and the pump's built in timer, or maybe connecting to my EasyTouch8. If going to connect to the EasyTouch 8, any reason not to connect to the relay used by the cleaner? The cleaner pump is 240v, so can that be easily rewired for a 120v circuit by dropping the second load line, or is it more complicated than that? I guess same question if using one of the open aux relays too.
3. Last thing on the Stenner pumps/reservoirs, do those need to be removed in the winter to avoid freeze damage? I'm in Texas, so we're not talking sub-zero F, so seems like 12% bleach should be safe according to freeze temps for it on the internet. But, I don't want to learn the hard way if freeze protection is necessary.

Any thoughts or past experience making this switch much appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[pjt]

I recently ordered a Stenner EconT pump and reservoir

Have you considered a SWCG? It's ideal for our Texas climate. SWCG is by far the cheapest, easiest, and most convenient way to chlorinate your pool. An IC60 would be perfect for you.

 

[jwesleyh]

Have you considered a SWCG? It's ideal for our Texas climate. SWCG is by far the cheapest, easiest, and most convenient way to chlorinate your pool. An IC60 would be perfect for you.

Thanks, yes, I have. Several reasons I'm not quite ready to make the switch to a SWCG. May get there eventually, though.

 

[pjt]

Several reasons I'm not quite ready to make the switch to a SWCG.

Aside from the upfront cost, there really aren't any downsides. What are your concerns? I would never consider owning a pool without one, especially in Texas.

 

[jwesleyh]

Thanks. My biggest concern is saltwater killing grass and shrubs. Water drains from the pad across a shrub bed and stretch of lawn to the drive way. I have a centrifugal pre-filter that has to be flushed periodically, so between that and the water released cleaning the cartridge filter, I'm worry I'll have about a 10 ft dead swath across the yard if I go salt. Also, figured I'll still be adding some chlorine 3 months of the year when the water temps are in the 40s and 50s. The trade off of filling a chlorine tank every few weeks during warm months didn't strike me as that off-putting.

 

[PoolStored]

Except in very arid parts of the country, putting pool water on the lawn is just fine. The very low salt levels in a SWG pool won't cause any problems, and the grass will appreciate the moisture. In very arid parts of the country, the salt can buildup in the soil over time, but that won't happen most places.

Do you know that using liquid chlorine for every 3.3 ppm of chlorine you are also adding 5.5 ppm of salt?

In under 2 years your water may have as much salt as a salt pool. Many pools are “salt pools” and the owners don’t know it since they don’t test for it.

 

[jwesleyh]

That's good to know. If going to look at SWCGs, should I stick to Pentair to match the other equipment or shop more broadly?

Still on the fence honestly, but good info. If this stenner pump route is just a horror story I'm about to enter, not just a little less convenient than a SWCG, please don't hesitate to tell me that!

Thanks!

 

[PoolStored]

So here

That's good to know. If going to look at SWCGs, should I stick to Pentair to match the other equipment or shop more broadly?

Still on the fence honestly, but good info. If this stenner pump route is just a horror story I'm about to enter, not just a little less convenient than a SWCG, please don't hesitate to tell me that!

Thanks!

In that case I'd get the intellichlor ic20.

With the easytouch you would need to buy the IntelliChlor Power Center that the cell connects to and the Power Center connects to your Easytouch. The Installation guides describe how things hook up. Connect the Power Center power to the filter/pump relay LOAD screws.

Easier to get the power center, but If you want to roll your own, and install it inside your EasyTouch you would need.:

The SWCG transformer
The fuse
The Surge card
The cable that connects the surge card to the bottom of the EasyTouch. (See below)
The cable the connects the RS-485 com port to the Surge card.

Pentair Power Cable 520724

Power Cable for IntelliChlor SCG Systems / IntelliChlor Cell / PCBA is used for IntelliTouch Automation Systems and EasyTouch Control Systems.

sunplay.com

@ajw22 and @Jimrahbe can confirm...

As to horror story, no, not a horror, but likely a hassle. I wouldn't do it after my experience...chlorine and the heat do not do well together, it will degrade and you will battle trying to figure out the % that bleach is given the heat, so you won't know how much to add. It also doesn't look like you can put the tank inside or bury to reduce/eliminate the heat issue. I might encourage you to try it in Ohio...but Texas...Nah. For the convenience and reduction is a hassle, get the SWG. Press a button for some more chlorine, press a button for a bit less. My time is worth money.

Take mine away (in Ohio!!), I fill in the pool. In Texas? Fuhgeddaboudit...

 

[reggiehammond]

One more huge vote for SWCG. Absolutely ZERO issues with any of the commonly cited myths around salt water pools.
I'd fill in my pool, or move, before I'd give it up. I think it's table-stakes for pools in Texas.

 

[PoolStored]

In that case I'd get the intellichlor ic20.

I made a mistake and confused threads. You need an IC-60.

 

[pjt]

My biggest concern is saltwater killing grass and shrubs.

Salinity of a salt pool isn't near enough to kill grass or shrubs. Have you run a salt test? You might be surprised how much salt is in your water right now.

water released cleaning the cartridge filter

I have the same filter. Might be a few gallons each cleaning, which I do once every 12-18 months.

I'll still be adding some chlorine 3 months of the year when the water temps are in the 40s and 50s.

FC demand in the winter is almost nothing. I'm a bit south of you, but got by this winter with just one gallon of LC.

The trade off of filling a chlorine tank every few weeks during warm months didn't strike me as that off-putting.

I guarantee that will get old fast. Shopping, transporting, storing, and pouring LC is inconvenient. I can't overemphasize the ease and convenience of a SWCG, and it's significantly cheaper than LC by a wide margin.

 

[Newdude]

Also, figured I'll still be adding some chlorine 3 months of the year when the water temps are in the 40s and 50s.

This one is always way over blown. When the water is too cool for the SWG to work, there is also next to none daily UV demand. One dose of liquid chlorine will last a week, and maybe weeks. If you dose higher than the typical summer levels, you can almost certainly get weeks per dose.

So yes, you will need to dose liquid chlorine a couple months a year, but not nearly the daily adds of the regular season. Think of how many months you would be dosing every day or every other day, to 'save' a dozen or less winter doses. If you dosed every other day with a double dose for 8 months, that's 120 doses, *PLUS* those winter doses either way. Or dosing every day would be 240 doses, plus the winter doses.

My SWG makes about 1000 jugs of 10% worth of chlorine. Can you imagine *not lugging* 1000 jugs ? Because I can't imagine having to lug them.

If i bought them at Walmart it would be well over $6100 out the door. I don't even care what they charge you for an install..... double the $1500 SWG cost for $3000, say...... you pocket $3k and *not lug* 1000 jugs.

 

[jwesleyh]

Alright, pool friends, you've convinced me to go the SWCG route. Now the dilemma of which brand to buy. A Pentair IC60 or a Circupool RJ-60+? Looks like I can get both for around the same pricing on the internet. But, Pentair is a 2 year warranty if pro-installed (and some locals won't do it unless you buy through them with about $1000 equipment price markup) and Circupool is 7 yr pro-rated regardless who installs. I feel like I could probably do the Circupool myself, but I'll admit the Pentair wiring install descriptions I found in other stings intimidate me a little. Is matching equipment really worth it vs. longer warranty and seemingly simpler install? Or, do folks think Pentair or consistency is meaningfully better?

In my short pool experience, all things Pentair strike me as more expensive but not necessarily better. If my EasyTouch or VSP ever dies, I'd likely be looking at different brands as a matter of value. And is there any value in not having everything tied to the same automation board? Couldn't you conceivably still operate with the on-pump controls and an independent salt cell set up if an automation control board dies, but not if you're all in Pentair?

Thanks as always for any opinions on a subject where I lack experience!

 

[PoolStored]

See post #8.

With the easytouch, you can get the load center and do as I said.

With the RJ, connect the Circupool power to the LOAD screws of the filter/pump relay. The standard is for the filter/pump relay to be the upper left relay. But some electricians do not follow the standards.

Post pics of the EasyTouch panel open showing the high voltage wiring and relays.

Both can work.

With the RJ-60, you will not have control of the output through the easytouch. You will have to manually control with the RJ control box.

I believe you can control the output% with the easytouch/intellichlor power center/IC60. @Jimrahbe can confirm.

 

[jwesleyh]

With the RJ-60, you will not have control of the output through the easytouch. You will have to manually control with the RJ control box.

I believe you can control the output% with the easytouch/intellichlor power center/IC60. @Jimrahbe can confirm.

Thanks. To this point about controls, I use the ScreenLogic app on my phone for remote control of things on the EasyTouch when not standing at the equipment box (I don't have any other Pentair remotes). I don't see Intellichlor controls in the app, but of course I don't have an Intellichlor installed, so maybe those can be configured/accessed once I have it. If not, I'm walking to the control box regardless, so doesn't matter if I'm using EasyTouch buttons or the RJ -- all in the same spot. And personally, I find the EasyTouch control menus cumbersome.

Do you really end up adjusting the salt cell that much once you get it tuned in to your pool's demand? And when you do adjust, more likely to adjust cell output or pump run time?

 

[jwesleyh]

See post #8.

With the easytouch, you can get the load center and do as I said.

With the RJ, connect the Circupool power to the LOAD screws of the filter/pump relay. The standard is for the filter/pump relay to be the upper left relay. But some electricians do not follow the standards.

Post pics of the EasyTouch panel open showing the high voltage wiring and relays.

And here's the wiring pic. Are the load screws 1 and 3 (black wires) on the top left relay?

 

[Newdude]

Do you really end up adjusting the salt cell that much once you get it tuned in to your pool's demand?

Its pretty predictable barring any wild weather swings. At worst you might adjust it weekly, but 4 to 6 weeks is a fair run on any setting. With your stoopid hot TX summer, your highest demand setting may last for 3 months.

And when you do adjust, more likely to adjust cell output or pump run time?

Do you want 2 variables or 1 ? (No wrong answers). I run 24/7 for many reasons, the biggest is being lazy and only wanting to adjust cell runtime (%).

If you want to mess with both of them, any equal combo is equal. 100% for 6 hours = 50% for 12 hours = 25% for 24 hours. (Etc etc). Whether you want to change the hours or the %, or both, is up to you.

 

[PoolStored]

Do you really end up adjusting the salt cell that much once you get it tuned in to your pool's demand? And when you do adjust, more likely to adjust cell output or pump run time?

I adjust maybe once or twice every couple weeks. However, I have, potentially a different situation than you. I run pump 24/7. I have a solar cover that is on unless I swim. I can run at 5-10% for April/May, then 15% for June/July, then back down end of august. I might have to adjust a bit in between weeks. When I open the pool to swim, I turn it up to 50%. When I cover the pool at night, I turn it back down. Works good for me.

I like my RJ and would recommend. Given your description, just get the RJ and wire it as instructed above.

 

[jwesleyh]

I like my RJ and would recommend. Given your description, just get the RJ and wire it as instructed above.

Very much appreciate all the info. Have I properly identified the load screws on my setup in #16 above best you can tell?

 

[PoolStored]

And here's the wiring pic. Are the load screws 1 and 3 (black wires) on the top left relay?

No, load side are RED wires. I would spend some time with the manual to ensure you know what you are doing.

https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/nam/pentair-pool/pool-manuals/easytouch/EasyTouch_and_IntelliTouch_Pool_and_Spa_Control_System_Load_Center_Installation_Guide_English.pdf

p. 25