Startup SWG chlorinator salt for new pool

[mguzzy]

hi, actually i am not fussed about salt taste, another knowledgeable member mention one time about staying at 3200 there is no taste there, and i have just repeated his comment, but to be honest who cares about taste not me, i just thought lower salt would be better for corrosion reasons, or i thought too much salt would cause dry skin, all that, but from all the responses here it seems a bit higher is no issue.....
so as said mine runs 3000 to 4000 so i will go in the middle at 3500 ....thanks again everybody

So lets review the salt levels for those that don't remember
Your SWG pool-~3500ppm
Your tears-~7000ppm
Your Ocean-~35,0000ppm

There is likely not high enough salinity in a salt pool to cause any corrosion. The ocean is 10 times more saline, hence the higher level of corrosion. How sensitive an individual person is to the salt taste is a function of that persons pallet... For example I can't really tell the difference between expensive beer and cheap beer.. they both make me pee, So I drink the cheap stuff for a better ROI.

 

[markayash]

So lets review the salt levels for those that don't remember
SWG pool-~3500ppm
Your tears-~7000ppm
Your Ocean-~35,0000ppm

There is likely not high enough salinity in a salt pool to cause any corrosion. The ocean is 10 times more saline, hence the higher level of corrosion. How sensitive an individual person is to the salt taste is a function of that persons pallet... For example I can't really tell the difference between expensive beer and cheap beer.. they both make me pee, So I drink the cheap stuff for a better ROI.

I had a friend who use to say your rent beer

 

[FIESTA62]

hi , i got a problem with my stepfathers pool and need advice on how to fix, its a 9 x 4.5 metre pool, pebble crete, he had it re-pebbled about 15 years ago at a guess , maybe longer, he has never really looked after it and for the last say 10 years its been green then clear then green again always a bit sad looking

ok i would say for the last 4 years its been green, he has been doing very little, for the first time i had a look at the pool gear, its got a small old looking chlorinator , i looked at the cell its got a big block of what looks like salt inside, obviously its stuffed ! and pump is single speed and rattles

i dont know how to run this old gear and figure best to replace it all, filter, chlorinator and pump with all new gear, same as mine so i can run it all no problem,
my question here is the pool is dark green been like that for 4 years, i learnt how to maintain my new pool with all the help from all u guys on the forum, but have no clue on fixing this green pool, do i need to drain pool and waterblast all surface and start fresh ? or can i bomb it with lots of chlorine ? thanks, Tony

 

[mgtfp]

Hey Tony,
Sounds like a good project. But nothing that can't be fixed. There are a number of threads here with swamp to pool conversions. You are heading in the right direction: You have to add chlorine, chlorine and more chlorine.

Follow the SLAM Process.

Regarding the SWG: sounds like it is completely covered in calcium scaling. You might be able to remove the scaling with muriatic acid (here usually called hydrochloric acid or just pool acid). 1 part acid to 10 parts water, and soak the cell in it until clean. Might take a few iterations if it's really bad.

First step is to clear the pool with liquid chlorine from the pool shop or Bunnings, SWG turned off through the whole process. Once it's cleared, we can work out if the SWG is still working. My SWG is from 2007 and still going strong.

Start with a full set of tests with your test kit. And if CYA turns out to be zero, than ask if any had been added in the last weeks/months. Check with us before you add any more CYA.

 

[FIESTA62]

hi, i am thinking just replace all gear, the pump is defiantly had its day, the chlorinator is Astral e25 looks basic to me, filter is hurlcon eco 650, it all looks old and i dont know how to program , i figure buy new with same gear as mine, i know how to run this gear and know its the best, and start fresh
there would not be any cya in pool my stepfather is 86, he has done nothing in the last 4 years to pool, he turns on the cluncky pump for a few hours every day thats it, no robot in pool, lots of leaves dropping in pool every day, i doubt chlorinator has been working so its all looking pretty bad
so no need to drain pool ?, i can do if thats the better way, i have a decent water blaster, but if slam is the way then whatever works best....

 

[mgtfp]

Up to you if you want to replace it all, I see the advantage of having the same equipment to make things easier. Also up to you if you want to drain or SLAM. I guess even after a drain you will might have to SLAM because of algae hiding, but probably not as long and with less chlorine. When draining, make sure that the water table is not too high so that the pool doesn't pop out when empty. And should it be a vinyl liner pool, they can't be fully drained to avoid the liner moving and getting wrinkly.

I'd suggest to start with a full set of tests, see how the water is doing. Maybe the CH and/or CYA are so high that ay least a partial a drain is in order anyway.

I was asking about CYA, because what can happen in neglected pools is that once FC is at zero, certain soil bacteria can eat the CYA and turn it into ammonia, which will take a lot of chlorine to neutralize, before any chlorine that's been added will actually start to show as FC for longer than 30 min. But that sounds unlikely when CYA hasn't been added in years.

There are many successful swamp to pool conversions like that one here:

Frog Filled Green Swamp to Oasis---Work in Progress!!!

Hi Guys, My name is Chris and I have been checking out the site in order to try and get a handle on my pool. Me and my family moved in the house last year. This is my second season with the pool and let the pool get out of control towards the end of last season and just left alone without...

www.troublefreepool.com

But it takes patience and a lot of chlorine.

 

[Dirk]

You know @mgtfp, you take all the fun right out of it when you hog all the good advice and cover everything!

The only thing I can think to add is about draining the pool. I would do so as a last resort. In addition to the possibility a high water table can float your dad's pool right out of the ground, there is the matter of the old finish. Sometimes, especially if the water chemistry has been neglected, the only thing holding compromised plaster (pebble) to the concrete (gunite) shell is the pressure of the water. Suddenly removing all that pressure, and then blasting the weakened plaster with a pressure washer can turn into a disaster.

It will be more trouble and expense to salvage green water than just starting with a fresh batch, but not if the plaster starts peeling off. Something to consider before emptying the pool. It might be just fine, or it might be the worst.

I think you should start a new thread for this project, as it is an entirely different pool. @kimkats, can you help with that? Or @mknauss?

 

[mgtfp]

You know @mgtfp, you take all the fun right out of it when you hog all the good advice and cover everything!

Yeah, but you're adding a real goodie here. Great advice about being careful with old plaster. My pool is in that category, very old, the plaster has certainly seen better days. Last thing I wanted to do is high pressure hosing it - unless I needed to make it 100% clear to my wife that we finally have to tackle replastering the pool

 

[FIESTA62]

not relevant

 

[mgtfp]

Link to new thread where the SLAM in your step dad's pool will be discussed:

Green pool not much maintenance need advice to bring it back to life

hi , i got a problem with my stepfathers pool and need advice on how to fix, its a 9 x 4.5 metre pool, pebble crete, he had it re-pebbled about 15 years ago at a guess , maybe longer, he has never really looked after it and for the last say 10 years its been green then clear then green again...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[FIESTA62]

hi, i have a question on my pool again, i know i ask a lot of questions, ok thing is today i did all tests and i found my FC was down to 3.2ppm, i haven't tested for over a week but didn't think it would be that low, the CYA is extremely faint on my test at 80 i mean real faint i could call it 80, but if looking for 100% cant see that dot then thats 90, so CYA 80/90,
so pool math says 80/90 cya i need FC 6, to get from my current FC 3.2 to FC 6 math says add 774ml chlorine, i added 800ml, and also ran the SWG at 100% for 3 hours, so according to pool math i should have pool up to FC6 especially as i also ran SWG

ok so turned off SWG at 5pm, i tested FC at 7pm and get FC 4, its only gone up 0.8, from 3.2 to 4

is this normal , is pool math just a ruff guide on how much chlorine to add? like its not even close to FC 6, i plan to retest first thing in morning and add more liquid chlorine to get up to FC6, but i have noticed many times in the FC math i add what pool math says but dont get anywhere near the target, just wondering if you guys experience the same thing with pool math, or am i missing something here....

 

[mgtfp]

You're doing exactly the right thing - keep asking, that's the best way to learn.

How old is the chlorine that you added? It looses some of it's strength over time.

By the way, there is not much benefit in doing the TC-test with the 25ml sample to get 0.2ppm resolution - just let's you run out of reagents sooner. 10ml sample, where 1 drop is 0.5ppm, is plenty.

The other option is that there is something eating your chlorine. You could run an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test (OCLT) to rule that out.

 

[setsailsoon]

I find Pool Math to be very accurate in predicting levels for my pool. With your settings you are adding 2.8 ppm per day FC. FC demand can easily be more than that for very hot summer. What does your pool look like? What is your CC level? If CC is normal and pool looks great I'd raise the output of your chlorinator to 4 ppm and test daily to see if it stabilizes your FC. An OCLT should be run if there's any question about algae as @mgtfp suggested. I find that FC levels swing a good deal with pool use and weather during summer. It's easier to control if you just let FC swing from target to a couple ppm above. You're not testing frequently enough to really see what's going on. I'd test daily for a few days to see the pattern. Once you get to know the pool you can back off testing frequency. If your target FC is 6 it doesn't hurt to run 6-8 and micromanaging the FC level to be constant will drive you nuts.

I hope this helps.

Chris

 

[Dirk]

I would suspect the chlorine. Do you see any sort of date code on it? In the US, the date codes aren't always used, and when they are they are cryptic. Here is a thread about it:

Chlorine Date Code Decoder/Easy Way to Measure Strength.

Hi, I just joined TFP this season and pool is looking great. TFP is an awesome resource. Thanks I thought the information below might be helpful for some of the forum participants. I recently bought 1 jug of 10% Liquid Chlorine that was actually 4.5%. It had a 2013 date code. I now am very...

www.troublefreepool.com

You could just buy a new jug, but unless you can find and decipher a date code on the new one, you might be buying another dud from an old, weak batch. I have seen very old chlorine at big box stores. Plus, they sometimes store it out in the hot air, or in the sun, which also helps to degrade the chlorine strength. So I buy my chlorine from the local pool store, because they store it indoors and they go through a lot of it, so the chances are better that theirs is freshest. And I buy just what I need. You don't want to buy a big quantity and store it for a long time at your house. A few months at most, even with the freshest. The higher the strength, the quicker it'll degrade. So 6% bleach will maintain better than 10% chlorine.

Be sure the numbers you've plugged into Pool Math are accurate. How did you come by your pool's water volume number? And be sure the strength of the chlorine you are using is entered into Pool Math correctly.

Better still is to continue to fine tune your SWG so all your chlorine is coming from there. It's "made fresh daily." That's the sure-fire way to rule out old chlorine from the equation. It may be that you need to run your SWG higher and for longer. What is your pool volume? What is your SWG's chlorine output (something you should be able to obtain from the manufacturer, possibly the owner manual, or someone here might know). With those two numbers you should be able to determine the SWG's capabilities and roughly how long it needs to run each day. Or just continue to crank it up and increase its runtime until it can maintain your target FC.

Do the OCLT to rule out algae. One of my or the previous poster's ideas will likely be the culprit...

 

[mguzzy]

Keep in mind Cl is used up not just by algae but also the incident sunlight (even with CYA in the water), Its summer in your neck of the woods so the sun is higher in the sky, right? The water temp.. I bet its warmer this time of the year tin your hemisphere, yes? And bather load.. are more people swimming? You need to increase the output of your SWG to compensate for all those factors during the peak season.. then turn it down as the pool usage lessens and the weather cools. If your SWG can't keep up, then you'll need to augment with liquid CL. I don't think it is that uncommon to test your FC and find out the SWG level isn't keeping up with the conditions. That's why we test, and not guess

 

[FIESTA62]

(OCLT) to rule that out.

hi, i will do the OCLT test, and i will stick to doing the 10ml test from now on i been doing both changing from time to time back and forth

as for the chlorine its from Bunnings and i would assume they have a good turnover, but i am not sure how old it is , i did have drums of it around for cleaning pavers and i been using that, it may be old stuff, but i recently bought a new tub so will use that from now on....

 

[FIESTA62]

I find Pool Math to be very accurate in predicting levels

hi, well its good to know math is accurate, i have had various times adding chlorine and the math hasn't been correct, so i am assuming as most say it might be old chlorine thats gone off, i got new stuff ready for next time

the pool looks sparkling clean, except i have noticed just recently in one corner a light colour green patch about 1 foot long , i gave it a scrub and mostly gone hardly noticeable but its still there very faintly

CC level 0

how did u know my output settings per day is 2.8 ? i dont know that ! ok i know after looking at Watermaids website that the RP9 makes 30g per hour at 100%, i am running it at 100% for 5 hours a day , so producing 150 g per day in my 36000 litre pool, but what's the math to work out the PPM like you have done ?, then i can adjust to raise to 4ppm as u suggested if needed,

I have found that when i get FC to 6 all looks good, i test a day or 2 later looks good, then get a bit lazy and test a week or maybe bit more and bam its gone down to 3, so i will test daily till i see how its holding each day, but knowing ppm output math of my swg per hour would be great, thanks

 

[FIESTA62]

chlorine from the local pool store

hi, well i buy from Bunnings our huge local hardware outlet here they would sell tons to family's i would think turnover would be good, no date stamp though, but i hear you, i might look at pool shop next time, but i do realize now that i had drums around for ages for cleaning pavers and it may be what i been using , i bought new recently and will use it next time

i have used various pool volume calculators it always come up to 36000 litres, the liquid chlorine i use is 125g/L hypochlorite that is 12.5%, i have put that into pool math

the SWG ( Watermaid RP9) puts out 30grams per hour at 100%, i have it running for 5 hours at 100%, so producing 150 grams a day, i don't know how to calculate ppm its putting into my 36000 litre pool per day but asked Chris ( set sail soon ) how he did calculation in his reply to me...

 

[setsailsoon]

hi, well its good to know math is accurate, i have had various times adding chlorine and the math hasn't been correct, so i am assuming as most say it might be old chlorine thats gone off, i got new stuff ready for next time

the pool looks sparkling clean, except i have noticed just recently in one corner a light colour green patch about 1 foot long , i gave it a scrub and mostly gone hardly noticeable but its still there very faintly

CC level 0

how did u know my output settings per day is 2.8 ? i dont know that ! ok i know after looking at Watermaids website that the RP9 makes 30g per hour at 100%, i am running it at 100% for 5 hours a day , so producing 150 g per day in my 36000 litre pool, but what's the math to work out the PPM like you have done ?, then i can adjust to raise to 4ppm as u suggested if needed,

I have found that when i get FC to 6 all looks good, i test a day or 2 later looks good, then get a bit lazy and test a week or maybe bit more and bam its gone down to 3, so i will test daily till i see how its holding each day, but knowing ppm output math of my swg per hour would be great, thanks

I used Pool Math and entered your information under "effects of adding"10K gal pool, chose swg for chemical to add, then selected the watermaid model and adjusted the FC output to be for your model Then inserted 100% power and 3hrs. Voila! 2.8 ppm FC added. Ain't Pool Math wonderful!

Chris
*** Edit***
PS your model shows 35 g/hr which is 1.85 Lb/Day

 

[FIESTA62]

The water temp

yep we have had some pretty hot days, and not sure about how this effects chlorine but i do have a Heat pump and it runs every morning for 4 hours, generally keeping pool minimum 28C on the hot days it gets to 30 no problem, usually when i have a bunch of kids in pool or even just a few i will turn on swg if its not running, but i would have thought this swg running 5 hours at 100% producing 30 grams per hour would be enough, but i am working on that calculation as asked in previous posts