Sta-Rite Manifold Leaking

[planoattorney]

We don't get much freezing weather here in North Texas so we leave out pools filled year around. A freeze switch kicks the pump if temps hit freezing and generally, moving water is more than adequate to protect our equipment. Last week or two, we hit freezing several days - no biggie, I assumed my pool would just protect itself. Turns out, not so much. The motor starter capacitor had gone out, so when the freeze switch tried to start the pump with a blown capacitor - no go and I was not paying attention. Temps warmed up, I went to check the pool equipment and find that the pipe between the filter and heater (about 5 feet long) is split open longways. Still don't know if any other pipes have problems because when I got it replaced, I turn on the pump (which has a new capacitor now) and water spews from the manifold (bottom bolt area) of my Sta-Rite heater. So far, a capacitor I could have bought online for $8 (I paid the $20 convenience fee to get it from a local pool store) has created a lot more problems than that thing is worth.

First, freezing temps (in the high 20's) for 4 or 5 days straight, the pump was obviously not on this entire time - what is the best way to check how much damage the freeze did to my equipment? We replaced the heater about 8 years ago, used it maybe 3 times. We can extend season if we use it, my wife complains about the waste of gas and associated cost plus Mr. Murphy can't resist, all three times we heated the pool, summer took a detour and we ended up heating for 3 weeks. So, I am inclined to create or plumb a bypass, but if there is a freeze plug in that area I would much rather keep my options open. Any advice/suggestions?

On a collateral note: Is there any warning sign "average life" on starter capacitors I should pay attention to in the future. 13 years with a pool, this is the first time we have had a pipe freeze, but then the pump motor and freeze switch were also replaced about 8 years ago when the heater was done so maybe I was just due.

Last but certainly not least - any simple method of checking underground lines?

 

[ps0303]

Check and see if the leak is from the plug on the bottom of the header. That plug is used to drain the header. No real definite life span for the capacitor put I'm sure the cold played a big part in its demise.

Hopefully the pipes underground weren't affected and were insulated just from being underground. Only way to know if they have issues is to watch your water level.

 

[JamesW]

If your manifold is cracked, the heat exchanger might be damaged as well.

The crack in the manifold should be easy to find. Just look carefully. You can turn the pump on for a second or two to make the leak super easy to find.

If you replace the manifold, you should check for water in the can after running the system. Pull the bottom manifold bolt to see if water comes out.

 

[borjis]

I'd almost bet money the heat exchanger will need replacing.

Went through that last winter being dumb and not draining
the heater.

 

[planoattorney]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

PS0303,

I will get out there this afternoon and find that plug. I can always hope I got lucky.

- - - Updated - - -
James,

It looks like the water is coming from the bottom bolt now. Even without loosening it. If there is water in the bottom of the can, does that mean save my time and get a new heater? Or can the heat exchanger be changed too? Of course that still leaves me with an 8 YO unit that suffered freeze damage.

- - - Updated - - -

Boris,

Did you just replace the heat exchanger or the whole unit? Also, out of curiosity, do you drain your pool or have a bypass valve to go around the heater when you drain it?

 

[borjis]

Yes I replaced the whole unit, but only because the heater that came with my house was already quite old on it's last days.
an exchanger alone replacement cost is usually around $ 1,200.

I don't have a heater bypass, kinda wish I had that plumbed in when it was replaced. What I did is just
remove both drain plugs to the heater, then drain the pump and sand filter. I do that when the water
is 45 degrees, then sometime in late february when we're past our freezing season I put everything
back together.

I use a 1/3 hp sump pump to drain out rain water. When the water is that cold algae can't really
grow so it hasn't turned green in that time.

 

[JamesW]

It's hard to tell if the exchanger is cracked. If it is, it's probably better to replace the heater.

 

[tstex]

Plano, if things are 8 yrs old, that's a fairly long time in today's standards.

if you are going to need to replace the heat-exchanger, you might as well go w a new heater, but you can run the math and the risks. Raypak's seem to be the board choice here and are compatible w all automation.

Once you fix all the plumbing on the equip pad, you can then determine if you have any remote leaks by water loss, bubbles in your pump basket, water in your yard, etc. I would think anything below ground would be fine...Plano is no tundra type location regardless of 3-5 days of near freezing...good luck - tstex

 

[borjis]

+1 for a Raypak. Simpler design / less parts to change out or go wrong.

8 years is a bit old for heater yes, but if everything else is sound I'd do a price check on
replacing the exchanger first. My heater was 12 years old and definitely time to replace and
the chimney stack didn't meet current code height.

 

[planoattorney]

Boris:

Do you drain the pool? Can't say I have ever been to the Pacific NW but I suspect you get cold winters. If you can get by with draining the equipment but not the pool then I know I can. Now that said, if you drain the pool, I need someone from Texas to chime in and tell me if we have a mild enough climate I can drain equipment and leave the pool filled. Frozen pipes are a pain, busted heater is an expensive pain, but a pool wall split open is disaster. I don't know how cold it has to get for a period of time to freeze and break a wall on an in ground pool, but I also don't want to find out the hard way.

 

[planoattorney]

More help/advice please.

I removed the manifold, and I specifically removed the lower bolts first to check. No water came out. I continued and removed the entire manifold and the crack was very visible, more important - I hope - the inside of the heater was dry. Maybe some moisture in the bottom, but there was no visible water inside the heater's box.

Is there a drain hole or is this a really good sign that I can replace the manifold and maybe get a little more use out of this thing?

Best price I have found for a manifold is $300 and if I have a reasonable chance of getting away with a manifold only this is a no brainer. But, I also found a new unit from an online purveyor that is identical to mine (no plumbing changes, just R&R the unit) for less than $2K. While the delta between manifold with gaskets and new heater is substantial, if the coil is bad it changes everything.

FYI: I hope no one needs this information but in a pinch, the manifold inlets are threaded and can be removed, then using two each 2" rubber transitions (available at Home Depot/Lowes/Etc) and a couple PVC elbows you can make a fast removable bypass. It literally looks like a large "U" attach to the water inlet/outlet connections that are already there - I had to slide the heater an inch or two but even with hard gas pipe I could get the space I needed. I don't think the rubber connections are sufficient for a permanent bypass, but they will at least buys time to decide what to do without putting a hacksaw on any of the pool's plumbing.

 

[ps0303]

If no water came out when you removed the lower bolt then I would have to suspect that the heat exchanger is OK. It was just the water inside the manifold that possibly froze and cracked it. You could always hook the unit back up to the water supply with the top off and see if there are any leaks in the heat exchanger when the water flows thru it.

 

[JamesW]

The heat exchanger hasn't been pressurized since the freeze, so I don't think that we can conclude that the heat exchanger is ok.

I would want to pressure test the exchanger before spending on a manifold.

It looks like the water is coming from the bottom bolt now.

How much water came out?

 

[borjis]

Boris:

Do you drain the pool? Can't say I have ever been to the Pacific NW but I suspect you get cold winters.

We do get cold enough winter for a light freeze, a thin sheet of ice I can crack easily. Last winter was different.
(the one that busted my heater) We hadn't had sustaining below 25 degrees for 2 weeks like that in 35 years.

I broke the ice as soon as it got warmer and it was 4 inches thick. Normally each winter it's just a few millimeters.


Having said that, I've owned 2 homes with pools and always kept them open and filled and never drained
below the returns. It can get super cold here once in awhile, but to my knowledge it's never been like
the NE where the potential for underground pipe returns bust.

It only gets damaging cold every winter about 300 miles NE of here where the arctic
chill breezes through in Yakima/Spokane Washington. I'm just outside of that, in Oregon. Not far from the coast.

I do believe you will need to run the pump and pressurize your plumbing to determine if the exchanger is damaged.
That's how I knew mine was done with.

I do not know how that could be accomplished without replacing the leaking manifold first. Unless it's just a slow drip.

 

[igneous]

If you cannot start running the pump today, you should drain everything above ground to minimize damage. It supposed to be in the 20's starting tonight and stay cold through weekend. I keep my pump running anytime we have freezing temps forecasted--
I don't trust the Intelliflo Freeze guard. I was home a while back on a Sunday when temps were hovering around freezing and the pump would cut on for 10 min. or so, then cut off--and repeat the cycle until it got warmer. So yes, the capacitor is the problem part that don't like the on/off cycling. Good Luck!