Spa drains while in Freeze Protection Override

[1poolman1]

Your response really gave me pause. I didn't have any food dye on hand, but before going to bed last night, I turned off all pool power (put the pool in service mode). This morning, the spa is 3/4 EMPTY! So what is that telling me? Either the spa one-way check valve isn't working or the leak is on the intake side? At the start of this adventure, I replaced the diverter on the intake valve (which had been leaking at the stem). So I need to find some Mrs. Stewarts laundry bluing and try this again.

If the spa leaked below the jets (returns), which is where the check valve is located, the leak has to be somewhere else. Usually, unless there is a broken pipe somewhere, that only leaves the suction side of the plumbing.
Is 3/4 empty the same level, or nearly the same, as the pool? If so, strong indication of the water flowing back to the pool through the suction valve. I see that at least 3 times a year, maybe more. Usually the valve is set wrong, but sometimes the diverter is worn out.

 

[1poolman1]

I got the Mrs. Stewarts bluing. Shut off all the pumps, let the water settle down and then put a big blue cloud of Mrs. Stewarts in the spa intake, return, and nozzles. But I'm wondering how / where to observe the blue "smoke" that should be slowing emptying the spa? If the intake valve is the problem, won't the flow from the spa just flow past the valve and into the pool? It will not show up in the pump filter basket, will it? If I take the valve cover off, I'll get a big gush of spa water that will mask any blue smoke. I figure I've got a couple of hours to figure this out. It's a very slow leak.

If you put the bottle in the bottom of the pool, right near the main drain cover, and gently squeeze with a pool pole (or whatever you can use with the spa full), if the flow of "smoke" is toward the drain cover there's your leak. If the valves are 5 years old, changing the diverter is a good maintenance item.
Not sure if they advertise them this way anymore, but when the "Never Lube" valves came out (early 1990s) Jandy said they were 5-year valves.

 

[hillyjd]

About an hour after I added the blue tint, the spa water was down several inches. I looked inside the pump filter basket - did not see any blue "smoke." I did notice that most of the blue liquid that remained in the spa had settled in the bottom - right on top of the return opening. If the water was leaking back through the return valve, I would think most of that blue would be gone. So maybe the leak is back through the suction side - that opening is on the vertical wall of the spa near the bottom. Since the spa was already down a bit, I went ahead and drained it and looked at the return check valve. There was a lot of "gunk" in that housing but it looked like the valve was functioning. Just to be safe, I cleaned out all the junk and put in a new check valve. Filled up the spa and turned everything off again. After about an hour, the spa had again drained down several inches. So suddenly the intake valve appears to be the main culprit. I been focusing all my attention on the return side.

 

[hillyjd]

Redid the blue tint test with all pumps off and the cloud drifted slowly towards the drain at the bottom of the spa. So still suggests leak is on the suction side. I removed the actuator from that valve; the diverter was solid against the stop. That's the diverter I replaced last week. Is it time to replace that entire valve?

 

[1poolman1]

Redid the blue tint test with all pumps off and the cloud drifted slowly towards the drain at the bottom of the spa. So still suggests leak is on the suction side. I removed the actuator from that valve; the diverter was solid against the stop. That's the diverter I replaced last week. Is it time to replace that entire valve?

Check the valve body for "scoring," scratches at the port. Or, to eliminate that as to issue, just go ahead and replace it.

 

[hillyjd]

At the suggestion of a friend, ran one last test today. Shut off all the pumps and let the spa drain again. Right now the water level is at least 6-inches below the return valve height, so water cannot be backflowing through that valve. It has to be flowing through the suction valve. Just more evidence that the suction valve is the culprit.

 

[hillyjd]

This morning I completely drained the spa, removed the suction valve cover and thoroughly checked the inside of the valve. I found no scoring or damage of any sort. The diverter (which is new) also still looks fine. Put everything back together and there's still a steady lead. I guess there's no other choice but to replace that whole assembly - no small feat since there's not much exposed PVC. Question - how do I prevent water from getting to that valve while I replace it? With the spa completely drained this morning, there was still a small but steady flow of water through the open valve and the spa was slowly refilling while the valve cover was off.

 

[hillyjd]

I'm ready to put a fork in this one. Yesterday morning I was out planning how to remove that three port intake valve when my pool guy shows up for his weekly service. I explain to him what's going on and he says he has never seen that valve fail in his 13 years in the business and asks me if I've checked the one way check valves because they fail all the time. I told him that I had replaced the one that was downstream of the return valve and it made no difference. Then he points to the other check valve that is downstream of the in-floor cleaning 6-port module. I had not checked that one because there did not seem to be anyway it could be involved. Sure enough, when I pull off the cover, that check valve is in pieces. One of the two plastic eye bolts in the cover had broken off. Luckily I had not tossed out the old check valve. Put that one in and it's all good. Who knew????