Spa draining slowly into pool

[Shawgo]

I have fixed so many things on my pool reading through these threads, so thanks for that!

I’ve got an issue that I’ve tried everything I’ve read here and need some help for what to try next. The spa is draining into pool, it’s noticeable when in spa mode, it drops a couple of inches per hour. It is also noticeable when the pump turns off, it drains all the way down eventually. Pool and spa are built into a hill and bottom of spa is at top of pool level.

I’ve replaced the check valve at the spa return and also the check valve for the in floor cleaner. I also replaced the diverters and orings for both the suction and return valve actuators. I’m investigating air leaks but I only see a small bubble in the pump basket. I’ve tried soap bubbles to find the air leak on the valves, lid, and union on the suction side but don’t see anything obvious.

Any thoughts on what to do next? We use our spa all the time all year round, so the water level drop is annoying especially in cold weather.

 

[HermanTX]

Welcome to your first post on TFP.
To confirm, this is a new problem, i.e. it has been working fine (spa not draining) but recently started draining when you stop the pump in spa mode. Do you immediately switch over to Pool mode? Since the spa is above pool level, are you sure the suction actuator is turning that valve? Since you have the check valve on the return side, I would investigate the suction side actuator.

 

[Shawgo]

Thanks. This is a new problem over the past couple of months, and the spa seems to drain slowly in all modes, pump off or on. When using the spa, it drains a couple of inches an hour. When the pump is off, it drains at the same rate in spa mode and also in pool mode. All valves are in the correct position (spa drain and spa return in spa mode, or main drain and pool return/partial spa return in pool mode). I took apart the suction side actuator and replaced the diverter and o-rings. I also replaced both check valves and the return side actuator diverter.

 

[HermanTX]

When using the spa, it drains a couple of inches an hour.

Is this accurate? In spa mode, as you indicated, the suction is from spa drain and directly back to spa return. Is the spa draining in this mode when pump running? If it is, then that would indicate a leak somewhere. Especially if you have confirmed that the 3-way valves are not leaking and allowing water to flow to the pool plumbing. Do you know that you are physically losing water or is it being displaced to the pool?

 

[Shawgo]

I may have found a clue tonight. I turned off the spa while still in it, as we sometimes do to cool down before we get out. It takes some time for the cold water from the pool to start coming through the spa return jets. But before that happened, I noticed that the pop up cleaner head on the floor was closed but leaking cold water in. The other 3 cleaner heads on the bench had only warm water around them, so no leakage. So somehow that cleaner head is letting cold water in, so perhaps it’s also letting spa water out when in spa mode or the pump is off? I’m not sure how though because we just replaced that check valve for the in floor cleaner. Any ideas?

Yes you are correct, it is draining in spa mode with the pump running. The water is displacing to the pool. We had a power outage last week and the whole spa emptied in the pool.

 

[Shawgo]

P. S. It was a long power outage, so over the course of a day the whole spa emptied. It seems to drain at the same rate whether pump is on or off.

 

[HermanTX]

I may have found a clue tonight. I turned off the spa while still in it, as we sometimes do to cool down before we get out. It takes some time for the cold water from the pool to start coming through the spa return jets. But before that happened, I noticed that the pop up cleaner head on the floor was closed but leaking cold water in. The other 3 cleaner heads on the bench had only warm water around them, so no leakage. So somehow that cleaner head is letting cold water in, so perhaps it’s also letting spa water out when in spa mode or the pump is off? I’m not sure how though because we just replaced that check valve for the in floor cleaner. Any ideas?

Yes you are correct, it is draining in spa mode with the pump running. The water is displacing to the pool. We had a power outage last week and the whole spa emptied in the pool.

Those pop up heads are known to give issues. If the pop up does not completely seal downwards, can flow migrate to the pool? I know you said the check valve was replaced but just wondering if there is another connection to the pool returns. That appears to be how water if flowing from SPA to Pool.
Can you provide a couple more photoes of pipework between the filter and the heater? Maybe one from behind the heater and another birds-eye.

Also, just to confirm, the other pump only flows to and from the pool. there is no connection to the spa.

 

[Shawgo]

The cleaner pump runs either the water features (in pool) or the cleaner nozzles in the pool and spa. There are some air bubbles in the cleaner pump basket. I tested turning the actuator valve on cleaner return vs. water feature return and both had spa water drain with pump off. Perhaps I check the orings and diverter in that valve next. Let me know if you have any other ideas, I’m still learning how it all works.

 

[HermanTX]

Let me know if you have any other ideas, I’m still learning how it all works.

Thanks for the additional photos. On the cleaner/water feature pump - there are 2 pipes coming into a 3-way valve for suction side of pump. Where are they drawing water from. I assume one is from the pool (a side wall drain). Where is other suction pipe coming from? The latest photo shows that both suction pipes are open, but you are only returning water to the cleaner on the return side. Also why is there a 2-way valve (near the rocks) on the left suction side? Do you rotate that valve for any reason?

 

[Shawgo]

I don’t really know. We have three of the side wall drains. One is by one skimmer (skimmer 1) and two are by the other skimmer (skimmer 2). I was trying to get equal pull from the skimmers during the cleaning cycle and that’s the position of the valve that seem to do it. So now that you mention those side wall drains, I could guess that the pipe labeled suction is pulling from the drain by skimmer 1 and the other pipe is pulling from the drains by skimmer 2? We turn the valve to shut off water when we do repairs (my husband replaced that pump motor a couple of years back). We also plug the skimmers for repairs since we’re not sure where the water is coming from to be honest.

 

[HermanTX]

I don’t really know. We have three of the side wall drains. One is by one skimmer (skimmer 1) and two are by the other skimmer (skimmer 2).

For clarification, a side wall drain would have 2 covers to make it compliant for anti-entrapment. So, you have 3 sets of wall drains? Or is it some other design of wall drain? On the water feature/cleaner pump, the pipe marked "suction" on the left appears to be a larger diameter pipe then the one on the right. So that could have 2 sets of drains coming into that larger pipe. It may have been done for flow volume. That left pipe also has that valve near the rocks which not sure why that is there as that pipe can be closed from the 3-way valve above it. So the question is still why is the spa slowly draining to the pool, even after verifying that all the check valves and diverter valves are functioning properly?

 

[Shawgo]

I have not tried to repair that valve actuator on the cleaner pump. I have an extra diverter from Amazon, so I mIght as well try that next.

Here are pics of the side wall drains. They are called Paramount SDX2 High Flow Safety Drain.

 

[Shawgo]

I called Paramount and given the clue with the floor cleaning nozzle seeping in cold water after shutting off spa mode, he said I need to look again at the check valve for the in floor cleaner, even if it was just replaced, to make sure it’s seated properly, etc. I also read on an Amazon review that the after market check valve I used needed to be super lubed up, the entire flap and the inside of the housing where it will close, to give it a good seal or it will leak water from the spa. So I did that, it’s good an lubed up for a tight seal, and I’m still losing water in spa mode.

But that has me wondering, was I also supposed to lube up the whole paddle on the diverters I replaced on the spa suction and return sides? I only lubed the orings and outside rubber seal on the paddle. Maybe one or both of the diverters aren’t getting a tight seal either?

I‘m new at these valve repairs, so it’s possible I am missing something simple with my YouTube research.

 

[HermanTX]

But that has me wondering, was I also supposed to lube up the whole paddle on the diverters I replaced on the spa suction and return sides? I only lubed the orings and outside rubber seal on the paddle. Maybe one or both of the diverters aren’t getting a tight seal either?

I‘m new at these valve repairs, so it’s possible I am missing something simple with my YouTube research.

You have Pentair diverter valves. These, like the Jandy model, are never-lube valves. They do not need lube on the paddle. it is always good to lube orings for the top seal and for the stem seals.

 

[HermanTX]

he said I need to look again at the check valve for the in floor cleaner, even if it was just replaced, to make sure it’s seated properly, etc. I also read on an Amazon review that the after market check valve I used needed to be super lubed up, the entire flap and the inside of the housing where it will close, to give it a good seal or it will leak water from the spa. So I did that, it’s good an lubed up for a tight seal, and I’m still losing water in spa mode.

It may be worth purchasing OEM parts. Is it a Pentair check valve? This is one reference to purchase,

Pentair Check Valve Rebuild Kit 2"-2.5"

 

[Shawgo]

Thanks for your help, it ended up being the diverter that was bad in the suction valve actuator. It must have not been seated correctly when I tried to replace it the first time.