Spa draining into pool (I think)

[emdoller]

Hi

I ran the spa this morning and shut it off. 30 min later it dropped several inches.

During normal operation, my filter pumps into my spa which overflows into my pool.

I shut off the return to the spa and removed the check valve (see red arrow). No water leaked through the valve.

I left the pool/spa off to see if it would continue to drain. If it didn’t, the check valve would be the culprit.

At the same time, I had to drain my filter to replace the plastic plug on the bottom as that was leaking. Because I had to order a new one, I left it drained.

So the system is essentially open and the return valve to the spa is shut.

I just checked it and It did continue to drain. So something else is causing it to drain or the fact that the system is open is causing it to drain.

I don’t know why having the system open would cause it to drain.

If I’m right, the only other thing that could be a problem, that I can think of, would be the return to the spa in spa mode circled in red. This is an electric valve that turns to shut off return to the pool and diverts heated water back to the spa.
If that valve were leaking, could it cause the spa to drain into the pool?

Any help greatly appreciated!!

Ed

 

[ajw22]

Hi

I ran the spa this morning and shut it off. 30 min later it dropped several inches.

During normal operation, my filter pumps into my spa which overflows into my pool.

I shut off the return to the spa and removed the check valve (see red arrow). No water leaked through the valve.

I left the pool/spa off to see if it would continue to drain. If it didn’t, the check valve would be the culprit.

At the same time, I had to drain my filter to replace the plastic plug on the bottom as that was leaking. Because I had to order a new one, I left it drained.

So the system is essentially open and the return valve to the spa is shut.

I just checked it and It did continue to drain. So something else is causing it to drain or the fact that the system is open is causing it to drain.

I don’t know why having the system open would cause it to drain.

If I’m right, the only other thing that could be a problem, that I can think of, would be the return to the spa in spa mode circled in red. This is an electric valve that turns to shut off return to the pool and diverts heated water back to the spa.
If that valve were leaking, could it cause the spa to drain into the pool?

Any help greatly appreciated!!

Ed

You should have a spa drain that pulls water OUT of the spa when in spa mode and spa returns that feed water INTO the spa when in both pool mode and spa mode.

Your post uses returns on both contexts and I can't tell which you are talking about.

Also, between the shadows and the black pipes I can't tell exactly how things run. You need to post more close up pics and identify here the lines to the pool and spa returns and drains go into the floor. I don't see any labels on the pipes.

 

[emdoller]

You should have a spa drain that pulls water OUT of the spa when in spa mode and spa returns that feed water INTO the spa when in both pool mode and spa mode.

Your post uses returns on both contexts and I can't tell which you are talking about.

Also, between the shadows and the black pipes I can't tell exactly how things run. You need to post more close up pics and identify here the lines to the pool and spa returns and drains go into the floor. I don't see any labels on the pipes.

Thanks for the reply! I tried to label the lines. Hope this helps. Where I wrote heater to spa, that’s a valve that mechanicaly spins to send heated water into the spa when in spa mode or to the pool in pool mode. It’s the one I think might be an issue.

Ed

 

[kadavis]

If the valve actuator is moving properly from pool to spa and back again when you activate you could pull actuator off and open valve to check the diverter inside. If the spa is higher than this valve you might get wet removing.

 

[emdoller]

If the valve actuator is moving properly from pool to spa and back again when you activate you could pull actuator off and open valve to check the diverter inside. If the spa is higher than this valve you might get wet removing.

Thanks. I’ve ordered a new diverter and will pull it apart when it comes.

I’ll keep you posted.

Ed

 

[emdoller]

I think I found the issue. I took out the check valve and felt the area that it rests against while closed and noticed it was very rough. Took a pic and looks like excess glue. I sanded it off and reinstalled the check valve. So far so good!!

Ed

 

[emdoller]

Looks like I spoke too fast. Spa still draining (don’t think it’s a leak).

It started doing it again after we had the spa in spa mode. That makes me believe it’s either the valve that switches over to suction of the spa or the valve that switches over to allow the heated water to return only to the spa.

I ordered new diverters but won’t get them till Tuesday.

Is there anything else I should look at or anything else I should try to isolate the issue?

Ed

 

[Dodger]

During normal operation, my filter pumps into my spa which overflows into my pool.

Wondering about this statement. Is this an official Spillover mode, where the return actuator is 100% open to the spa and pool return is completely blocked?

Or is it an engineered spillover where the automation thinks you are in Pool Mode and that actuator stop has been tinkered with and set part way between pool off and spa off? Some PBs do that to simulate a spillover, which means the diverter never completely closes off the spa.

In this case, when you have a faulty check valve or no check valve, your diverter can allow water to come back through that actuated valve when the pump is off.

If you want, you could post a picture of that actuator position.

 

[emdoller]

Thanks for the reply. I attached a picture.

The arrow shows the flow of water out of the heater.

It hits the mechanical valve 4 first. In spa mode the water only goes into the spa. It’s currently in pool mode.

Number 3 goes to my Polaris booster.

Number 1 goes to the pool.

Number 2 goes to the spa, through a hand valve and check valve during pool mode. Right now it’s closed.

So during pool mode, water goes to the spa where it spoils over, pool, and booster.

I now know it’s not number 2 as I shut it off and the spa still drained. I did make sure the hand switch didn’t leak.

I now think it’s number 4 because I grabbed the handle on the mechanical unit and was able to close it off a bit more.

I just filled up the spa and will see if it stops leaking.

Hope this all makes sense.

Ed

 

[emdoller]

After turning the number 4 valve a bit by hand, it’s still leaking. Doesn’t mean that valve is working. Once I get the new diverter, I can try to solve this.

Ed

 

[Meadow]

Ed,
If you have a raised Spa then it might be worth investigating the filter pump suction side. Not sure if your suction side actuator is operational but you don't want to pull water from the Spa when in SpillOver mode. There is a possibility that the water from the spa flows back down to the pool via the split suction pipe when the pump is off. Take a peek at post# 3 here and see if it helps.

 

[Dodger]

Thanks for the reply. I attached a picture.

The arrow shows the flow of water out of the heater.

It hits the mechanical valve 4 first. In spa mode the water only goes into the spa. It’s currently in pool mode.

Number 3 goes to my Polaris booster.

Number 1 goes to the pool.

Number 2 goes to the spa, through a hand valve and check valve during pool mode. Right now it’s closed.

So during pool mode, water goes to the spa where it spoils over, pool, and booster.

I now know it’s not number 2 as I shut it off and the spa still drained. I did make sure the hand switch didn’t leak.

I now think it’s number 4 because I grabbed the handle on the mechanical unit and was able to close it off a bit more.

I just filled up the spa and will see if it stops leaking.

Hope this all makes sense.

Ed

#4 looks like an actuated valve on the backside of that plumbing. What are the 2 stop points for? One way appears to send water down pipe 3 to Polaris and/or pool/spa options. Where does the other way straight into the ground under #4 go to?

Sorry, I didn't fully follow the previous posts, but I don't understand "during pool mode, water goes to the spa where it spills over, pool, and booster."
If it is pool mode, it should be returning to pool only (and maybe Polaris), without spillover through the spa. How is it getting to the spa in the above configuration?



Added: In post #3, you identify 2 separate spa returns. One regular one and one for heated water. I find that confusing that there are 2 returns to the spa. If that is true, both should have check valves, but I don't see one under the actuated valve #4. Perhaps the photo is just not giving enough detail to follow from heater through SWG and to spa.

 

[emdoller]

#4 looks like an actuated valve on the backside of that plumbing. What are the 2 stop points for? One way appears to send water down pipe 3 to Polaris and/or pool/spa options. Where does the other way straight into the ground under #4 go to?

Sorry, I didn't fully follow the previous posts, but I don't understand "during pool mode, water goes to the spa where it spills over, pool, and booster."
If it is pool mode, it should be returning to pool only (and maybe Polaris), without spillover through the spa. How is it getting to the spa in the above configuration?



Added: In post #3, you identify 2 separate spa returns. One regular one and one for heated water. I find that confusing that there are 2 returns to the spa. If that is true, both should have check valves, but I don't see one under the actuated valve #4. Perhaps the photo is just not giving enough detail to follow from heater through SWG and to spa.

I’ll try to answer all your questions.

The two stop points on number 4 are the pipe going into the ground which is water going into the spa in spa mode. Shuts water flow off to 1,2,3. When it’s in pool mode, the water goes to 1,2,3.

When my system is in pool mode, water goes to 1,2,3. 1 is the bottom of the pool, 2 is the spa which dumps into the pool, and 3 is the Polaris booster pump.

There is a check valve that connects between the top of number 4 and the heater see picture. I didn’t think of checking that. Not sure what that one really does.

Ed

 

[Dodger]

Guessing that check valve right before the SWCG is safety for the heater from concentrated chlorine, but others here would know more about that.

If #4 into the ground is heated water to the spa, then where is the check valve for it? Crazy idea, but is it out by the spa somewhere? If there is no check valve on that line, then I agree with you that the actuated valve at #4 is suspect. You may want to remove the actuator and make sure the diverter lines up with both of the directions it is supposed to block when you rotate it. I think you posted earlier that you ordered new diverters, so that may be the fix too.

Also, make sure the electronic actuator is moving to the full stop positions, which appear to be 90 degrees apart, and that it isn't stopping before traveling the full 90 deg. That would leave a path to leak by even when heated spa is supposed to be off, especially if there is no check valve on that line.

 

[emdoller]

Guessing that check valve right before the SWCG is safety for the heater from concentrated chlorine, but others here would know more about that.

If #4 into the ground is heated water to the spa, then where is the check valve for it? Crazy idea, but is it out by the spa somewhere? If there is no check valve on that line, then I agree with you that the actuated valve at #4 is suspect. You may want to remove the actuator and make sure the diverter lines up with both of the directions it is supposed to block when you rotate it. I think you posted earlier that you ordered new diverters, so that may be the fix too.

Also, make sure the electronic actuator is moving to the full stop positions, which appear to be 90 degrees apart, and that it isn't stopping before traveling the full 90 deg. That would leave a path to leak by even when heated spa is supposed to be off, especially if there is no check valve on that line.

Thanks. No check valve between the #4 heading to the spa that I can see.

My diverters arrive later this week. Maybe I’ll pull the actuator and see if the current diverter is doing what it should. My other idea was plugging the #4 outlet in the spa with a rubber stopper.

What’s interesting is when the spa runs over night it seems to reset the problem until the next time we use the spa. Not sure this is 100% of the time but I’ll play with it this week.

Really appreciate the guidance!!

Ed

 

[emdoller]

I was able to make it to Lowe’s to purchase a rubber stopper. What’s crazy is as I was putting it into the end of number 4 in the spa it literally sucked it in! So I know that’s the issue.

How do I determine if it’s the diverter vs the actuator?

Ed

 

[Dodger]

I assume the pumps were off when the plug was pulled in, so it's just gravity and not pump suction?

BTW, what does the end of #4 in the spa look like? And how is that different than the end of #2 in the spa? Your plumbing is still very mysterious. Pictures would be great.


To answer your question, I would remove the actuator and just debug the diverter first.

 

[emdoller]

Yes, pumps were off. It’s been plugged all day with a rubber stopper and no leak.

Here’s the spa. The top return is #2 (marked 1 in the photo), the bottom is #4.

 

[emdoller]

I replaced the diverter today and it seems to be working. I plan on cycling it from pool to spa mode a few times throughout the week to see if it holds up.

Thanks for all the help.

Ed

 

[Dodger]

Fingers crossed.