Soon to be (maybe) pool owner

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dunginhawk

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Jul 10, 2018
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So I have done a lot of research.. Between reading and videos I bet im in 200 hours now. There are a few things concerning me.

1. Size of the pool. I want fiberglass. Ease of maint. , long term costs, chemical costs, speed to install, prettier coping (than vinyl), etc. I also need to do a freeform pool due to the way my backyard is layed out + stupid rules of the city (can only have 30% of your backyard filled with structures (pavers, concrete, pool etc). That said, I am a little concerned that the pool I want (Thursday pools wellspring 40) is not big enough. Its 40ft long, but 16 ft across (widest) with some fairly deep cuts. Im concerned its going to be too narrow. Anyone with a FG pool freeform that feels the same?

2. Convincing the wife. I love the water, grew up near a lake, have swam a lot of my life. She hasnt/doesnt. She has accepted the project reluctantly. She knows I want it, knows our kids (4/7) would love it. Understands the want for us to keep them close to home, out of trouble. Family gatherings etc. We would be putting in a 23x18ft deck off of our master with a spiral staircase to the pool area. That could be the shade for an area under it with tv, fireplace etc. That underneath area we would blow out that wall, tile that room for access to a bathroom. I made another post with a video of what I want to do, perhaps ill add that here too soon. Either way, its a HUGE project, and i do fully expect her to love the patio, the shaded area, some times the pool etc. Part of me has some guilt that she isnt 100% on board... Im guessing this isnt abnormal. Ive read a lot on here, it seems common that one person is hesitant.
Im hoping when its done, and done right she will have a change of heart and love it. I know my wife... Shes very traditional, hates change, and HATES the fact that im a techie with things changing daily in the house (youtubetv service, 124 smart devices in the house) etc. However she does come around... Hated the idea of sonos when we built the house, loves it now. Hated the idea of a water line for our keurig, cant live without it. Again, this is more my guilt with her not being excited, but more accepting of the project.

3. Money - the entire project will likely run around 150k. Thats for Pool, auto cover, electrical, deck, 2 doors added to house, tiling a room, fireplace, furniture, landscaping hot tub, etc etc etc. We have a fair bit of cash laying around, but would do a home equity line (our house is paid down quite a bit) which would be just about 1k a month in payments. While not chicken scratch, we have a fairly decent income. It wouldnt put pressure on us. It is a lot of money though. Problem there is what others have said, If we saved up and did it all with cash, it would take another probably 2 years to get 100 ish more to pay for it outright, and of course thats 2 years we live without the pool. My plan is to pay off the loan in 2-3 years (7-8 years ahead of schedule).

4. Upgrades - So from what I understand, if my pool is 11,500 gallons, I want an SWG rated for probably at least 20-30 right? I am also wanting a cartridge filter not sand (i live in midwest where sand is king) again, i want ease of overall maint. So are those filters rated for gallons as well? What size should I be looking for?


I can think of nothing more amazing that sitting in the pool at 9pm on a weekday with the tv on (news) under the deck, blue pool lights just illuminating everything. Or sitting on comfortable couches under the deck watching tv, having a drink.
Hoping it becomes a reality.
 
Welcome to TFP dunginhawk...

So another Sonos fan...Sonos rocks for sure! In fact Im a beta tester for them. Now on to our new pool/oasis as it sounds. This will obviously be a big project and there are some folks here on TFP that love to spend other folks money on builds :) You have come to the right spot for advice and help!

How many months of real pool use will you get being up in Iowa? Have you spoken with any pool builders (PB) for design and estimates other than fiberglass? Hows the access to your space for the pool? Will you do all the construction at once? Have you spoken to contractors?

I love my SWG and certainly made the right choice for me. You are correct on size (larger). As for filter you will get varying opinion as each option has pro/cons. Post up a pic of the space you will be working with.
 
I would want an SWG rated for double the size of the pool. It will be able to crank out the chlorine you need when you need to bump up production. Sizing an SWG is kind of like sizing a tent. It may say the tent sleeps 4 people, but if you look at the illustration that is 4 thin people in sleeping bags, tetrised in head to foot like you were packing them to be shipped! Maybe 2 people with air mattresses would fit comfortably in that tent with a narrow walkway between them.

Make sure you include features she will enjoy, like maybe the landscaping or a really nice shaded area to sit and keep an eye on the kids while they swim It sounds like you are looking to keep it as low maintenance as you can, so get a good quality robot, and of course a good quality test kit ( TF100 ). Think about where you will store the pool toys and floats and how that area will fit into the design. Also make sure you get a really good safety cover for winter.

Cartridge filters are sized in square feet of coverage. Get a nice large filter and you will spend less time cleaning them. Have a spare cartridge so that when it is time to clean you can swap them out and clean one while the other is filtering. I recommend adding a T and a valve between the pump and cartridge filter so that you are able to vacuum to waste if needed. To me that is the main drawback of a cartridge system and it is so easy to solve with a couple of pieces of pvc. It sounds like an awesome project!
 
So here is a video I just made... I modeled this in a landscaping program (realtime landscaping plus). Ive made about 40 iterations, but this is the one I feel fairly confident with. The ONLY thing i dont like is the hot tub is so far from the house, in winter it will be a tough slog :)
In Iowa, I think realistically 5-6 months of use. May-Sept.

In the video below the ONLY thing existing today is the stone pavers with the firepit and stone wall. THe idea is to break the stone wall in two, to allow entrance to the pool area. Everything else here is new. The door from the deck will lead to master bedroom. (there was no model for spiral staircase so use imagination). The below area door leads to a guest bedroom today, which will have an air curtain over the double slider so it can be left open. That leads across the hall to a bathroom. Im going to tile that guest bed, and across the hall to the bathroom.

Access. Behind us is undeveloped, so I think they will have no problem getting heavy equipment back there , saving my front and side yard.
LaBarre Pool Deck Edition - YouTube

Happy to answer any questions about the build.
 
1) Size - The 40 foot long part seems to be fine... but 16 feet wide may be a bit narrow. Think about something like a round pool where you can go to the middle... you have roughly 12 feet in each direction in a 24 ft round pool. You have a little over 10 feet on either side in a 21ft pool. Yours is going to be a touch "smaller" that being in the middle of an 18ft round pool.

My parents have an 18. I'm 99% mine is a 24. They are both round. While theirs is "fine" and I could live with it if I had too... I prefer the extra space of the 24. It's a preference, but I certainly wouldn't go any more narrow that what you have laid out.

2) Considering your partners feelings is important. If she is onboard to "give it a try" then I'd say you are on your way. Try to get her excited about the new project by asking her to "be in charge of" some of the things she likes. Let her take the reigns on the landscaping, or some of the design choices she may be interested in. That way both of you get some of the things you want in this project.

3) Money - That's a lot of money. You know your finances way better than we do. It sounds like spending what you estimate won't put a strain on you. I guess all I can offer there is shop around a bit on things like contracting work. I usually try to get 3 estimates.

4) I'd go roughly double up on sizing when picking a SWG. I don't know a lot about them, but the consensus seems to be over sizing is the way to go. With a volume of just over 11,000 gallons though... it'd be pretty easy to ramp up the FC with bleach or chlorinating liquid if necessary. Depending on CYA levels, a few gallons of liquid shock would get you there in a hurry. So I guess I'd say I wouldn't go triple the size, double should be fine. You can supplement chlorine very easily on those rare occasions with such a small volume of water.


The type of filter.. well that is up to you. I use a hayward 150 pound sand filter and it's as low maintenance as it gets IMO. Mine seems to rarely ever need back washing, an the multivalve functionality is really nice. Easily able to vaccum the pool either into the sand filter or to waste, easily able to waste water out of the pool, easily able to recirculate without filtering if you'd ever want to. Storage would be the big consideration there, when the pool is closed. Right now, I empty all the sand out of my filter, clean it out, and put 3 fresh bags in at the start of next season. Cartridges would be a lot easier there. 150 pounds of sand is a lot for one person to throw around when there is also still some water in it. It's heavy. Depends on your plan for closing the pool each year.


As as side note, what do you and your wife do for a living. Not asking, or really needing to know... but you folks make some serious bank!
 
I dont know about serious bank... We arent doctors, or dentists or osteopaths :) just your standard 4 year Meteorology degree (and not using it haha)
I am in IT sales. I sell enterprise storage for Hewlett packard enterprise. Company i worked for was acquired last year by HPE. My wife is a director of HR for a marketing agency. So fairly normal jobs. However we live in Iowa, id say our money goes a lot further than those in Cali. My wife is in Cali right now and her friend there had a 600 sq ft apt and was paying 2400$ a month. Where as in iowa we have a nice home with 3850 sq ft (ranch and walk out) and we pay about the same. Also my power is 6 cents per kwh :) Lots of benefits to living in cali, but lots to living here too :)

We are under a fairly strict code in our city where 30% of the land can be used for structure or pavers etc. So we are kind of hamstrung on a freeform (plus i dont want a rectangle at all). If i were to put in a rectangle, i could only do a 1 ft border and my 30% would be gone. With a freeform i can follow the contour of my existing stone wall, and use that space more efficiently.

I am trying to involve her as much as possible. She just doesnt much care for the design work etc. She has a hard time visualizing a space, hence why i made the video. Once the deck is up and pool is in she will do a good job designing around that.

The filter situation is one thats hard to gauge.. There are folks who claim both are just as easy to maintain. to me, as long as I have a second filter, and I hose it off monthly (or however often i will need to) and throw in the other one while that one dries or whatever. That seems easier than having to deal with back washing, or Mucking with sand ever. Perhaps im wrong. Im a noob here.
 
I had estimated based upon what I was reading, a house hold income north of 150K per year for what it's worth. But your cost of living and other living expenses also do play a role. I suppose it's pretty manageable even with a yearly house hold income closer to 100K, depending on again what your expenses are.


I do suppose cartridge would be the "easiest" really. Especially if you had a spare you could just swap when the in use cartridge needed cleaning.
 

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Sand is nice, and cartridge is nice but don't forget DE. Filters down to the finest micron and it's cheaper than cartridge filters. I use the Hayward EC50 with the bump handle to regenerate the filter. This limits the amount of cleaning. $30 box of DE powder I estimate will last me approx 2-3 years and my pool is 15,200 gallons.
 
Nice looking backyard in teh video. I would like to add a few constructive thoughts as things for you to think about.

1.) I dont like the hot tub placement, since winter usage is somethign to think about. You have to ask yourself this. Do you think that you will really use the hot tub in the middle of summer when the pool is open with Iowa Summer temps? If yes, then perhaps yoru placement is good. But if no, then I think that you should move it. I know I dont use the hot tub and pool at the same time, as we have warm summers, adn the idea of sitting in a hot tub while it is 90 outside seems silly to me. So if I were you, I would consider tucking in the hot tub closer to the house. Looking at thing, under the staircase on the right of the house would be where I would put it. This would create a cover from the snow, and make it super easy to get to in the winter. Plus I like a hot tub closer to the house as it gives more privacy. And, in the winter, the hosue protects from some of the wind. Where you have the hot tub, the wind will rip across everyone as they sit in teh tub, and despite being hot, people will get cold.

2.) I know you want a spiral staircase from the master, but personally I think they look nice, but hate how they work in practice. Not easy to go up and down.

3.) I am worried about the placement of your table, with a wall between it and the pool. The party will be centered around the pool, and the wall places that table and chairs outside of the party, sort of isolates them from the party.

4.) For typical pool usage, the shallow end is where people hang out. And this is typically placed closest to the entrance to the pool area. You tend to want to put yoru furniture in that area. You have 2 chaise lounges but they are furthest away from the house. They should be closer to the table and chairs, or again those people will feel isolated. In your current design, you have 1 party at the table, one in the pool, and one at the chaise lounges, and it will be hard for everyone to communicate as things are spaced apart.

5.) WHere are you going to store your pool floats? Where are swimmers going to put their stuff? Towels close to pool, bags for clothes and sunscreen. These are things that you cna easily say we will figure out, but these are the things that can lead to regret. A lot of people spend great lengths of time laying out their pool, getting proper spacing, etc. Then forget small things, and in the end have to compromise on either usable space, or inconvenience to get yoru stuff, and end up with regret.
 
Yev said:
Nice looking backyard in teh video. I would like to add a few constructive thoughts as things for you to think about.

1.) I dont like the hot tub placement, since winter usage is somethign to think about. You have to ask yourself this. Do you think that you will really use the hot tub in the middle of summer when the pool is open with Iowa Summer temps? If yes, then perhaps yoru placement is good. But if no, then I think that you should move it. I know I dont use the hot tub and pool at the same time, as we have warm summers, adn the idea of sitting in a hot tub while it is 90 outside seems silly to me. So if I were you, I would consider tucking in the hot tub closer to the house. Looking at thing, under the staircase on the right of the house would be where I would put it. This would create a cover from the snow, and make it super easy to get to in the winter. Plus I like a hot tub closer to the house as it gives more privacy. And, in the winter, the hosue protects from some of the wind. Where you have the hot tub, the wind will rip across everyone as they sit in teh tub, and despite being hot, people will get cold.

2.) I know you want a spiral staircase from the master, but personally I think they look nice, but hate how they work in practice. Not easy to go up and down.

3.) I am worried about the placement of your table, with a wall between it and the pool. The party will be centered around the pool, and the wall places that table and chairs outside of the party, sort of isolates them from the party.

4.) For typical pool usage, the shallow end is where people hang out. And this is typically placed closest to the entrance to the pool area. You tend to want to put yoru furniture in that area. You have 2 chaise lounges but they are furthest away from the house. They should be closer to the table and chairs, or again those people will feel isolated. In your current design, you have 1 party at the table, one in the pool, and one at the chaise lounges, and it will be hard for everyone to communicate as things are spaced apart.

5.) WHere are you going to store your pool floats? Where are swimmers going to put their stuff? Towels close to pool, bags for clothes and sunscreen. These are things that you cna easily say we will figure out, but these are the things that can lead to regret. A lot of people spend great lengths of time laying out their pool, getting proper spacing, etc. Then forget small things, and in the end have to compromise on either usable space, or inconvenience to get yoru stuff, and end up with regret.
Click to expand...

1. completely agree. I want to find a place closer, but the only place that really would work is where the table and chairs are now. so in the end, that may be the place it ends up.
2. I can not get a staircase down in any other fashion from that deck. there simply isnt enough room to work with. Ive thought about having no stairs for a few years, til our kids are older. Also, you could have rubber non slip covers added to spiral staircase to make them super grippy. This is not worked out fully yet either.
3. The table placement as it is now, still works for us. Again, it might move when the hot tub takes its spot. The firepit is on that side of the wall, the wall is NOT high at all and the table will not be used that much in reality. Some family dinners perhaps, or a place to have buffet set up. Chances are when we figure out where the bar will go that will be the main spot. People will pull up a wall seat, a feet in pool seat, a couch under the deck seat. There will be TONS of places to sit, the table to me, wont be central to 95% of the things we do.
4. While i dont disagree with the premise of the argument here, the reason the chaise lounges are there is because thats where the sun will be, all day. Because of the height of our house, and the new deck, the front end of the pool will be completely shaded by 2pm. So if someone wants to enjoy the sun, for a tan or whatever, there is little choice where they need to end up. Also, due to the very restrictive nature of my city code, I dont have any room to add another bump out. I envision people sitting on the sun deck in the pool, the wall, and the shaded couches under the deck. I do not ever envision people hanging out at the table and chairs just sitting there chatting. I have a few friends with pools and it seems to break down to 1. Guys in the shade watching golf or football games, etc. 2. women with feet in the pool or on loungers :) Its still a work in progress, so Ill think about how to incorporate other things.
5. So what you cant see in the video is under the deck. That door is right now a window. That door will lead to a room (will be tiled) with lockers, etc for pool related goodies. Across the hall is a tiled bathroom. I also plan to have a few vinyl deck boxes (already own them actually) around for toys and floats etc. Plus under the current deck (where the video starts) is a huge 20x16 area where the pool equipment will go, which can easily be closed off and used for some storage too. While I dont have everything figured out in regards to this stuff, I have a fairly good handle on it.

Thank you SOOOO much for your contribution, you make some excellent points. I appreciate the time you put in to the responses. thanks
 
So I just got this quote from my installer. Prices are inline with what he verbally told me, except the cover.. the cover is about 5k MORE than the other bids i received.. I broached the subject with him. I am awaiting the response.
anything else alarming on here? :)

Limited lifetime structure warranty 15 year gel coat warranty through Thursday Pools


X






EXCAVATION (NO DIRT HAUL AWAY)


X
PERMITTING


X
SAND/ROCK (FOR BACK FILL) 5 loads total


X
CRANE


X
SHIPPING POOL


X
1.5 HP PUMP


X
150 FILTER


X
GAS HEATER


X
1 LED LIGHT color changing


X
Hand Rail x 1


X
Test kit & Chemical startup kit


X
Pool cleaning equipment


X
2 years parts and labor warranty on all equipment


X
All misc. supplies, pipes, valves are included


X
All underground piping with high pressure flex pipe


X
Time Clock


X
Solar Cover


X
All electrical per Action Electric meeting with homeowner


X






$56,950










EXTRAS:




1 Extra LED light
$750


Fancy light switch
$400


Colored Gel Coat
$1,000


Hauling dirt away
$300 per load


Grading extra dirt on site
$85 per loader hr


Extra load of sand
$300 per load


Extra load of rock
$500


Filter 320 cartridge
$400


Filter 420 cartridge
$700


Salt Water Chlorinator
$1,500


Auto Cover Pool in Pool polymer walk on lid
$18,300


Green high efficiency pump 4 speed
$1,500


2 deck jets
$1,000


Laminar lighted water feature per 1
$2,500


Electric heat and cool pump
$3,100


Electric heat pump
$2,300

- - - Updated - - -

So most of the items are in line with every bid ive gotten.. The cover is high, but he claims he uses high quality components, and only orders the actual cover after the casing is in the ground, and ready to go, so the measurements are perfect. Where as a kit can have issues.
Thats the only thing I really questioned him on. I will be upgrading to a 320 filter and unit, SWG, Variable Speed Pump and an extra LED (fancy switch is just a switch he includes for free with the 2nd led). no biggie.

Certainly didnt expect to need that many upgrades, but the concrete bid is nearly half of what I had budgeted. only 6$ per foot.
So for those concrete folks. I like stamped, but I do NOT want to seal it. So the only option would be to do stamped, in basic grey (without sealer dye would fade) and not seal it. Otherwise just stick with normal concrete. Will I regret not doing stamped? I need 950sq of concrete for this project.
 
Any brands/names to go with the equipment or is it just whatever shows up? My point is be specific on the equipment (Jandy, Hayward, Pentair). Stamped concrete looks nice but since your not sealing or adding color have you considered salt finish as an option? I had stamped at my other home but we went with exposed aggregate and I’m not disappointed at all...
 
All equipment is pentair. its the only vendor he uses. Salt finish? no, never even heard of it. I am in Iowa, so whatever it is has to hold up to the harsh winters. Is exposed aggregate just the normal brushed grey standard stuff?
EDIT . just looked up salt finish. Its possible. i think it might be ok to have a 2 ft border around the pool in normal concrete, then do some variation with salt or something. give it a little texture and change up
 
Loving everything I am seeing! You are on the right track for sure!

We have spiral steps in our pool house that go to the loft part. Make sure to get as wide a step as you can. I had to go skinny and it is hard to get up the steps with something like a storage box in my arms due to how little room there between the center pole and hand rail. I LOVE how they look and how little space they take up!

Valves-make sure they are the "good" ones. Make sure they are repairable and such. NO ball valves as seen in Lowes and such. They will get brittle and break over time.

Unions-get these on everything. That way when you to repair or replace something you do not have to cut pipe to do it.

Equipment pad-make sure there is a light over it. Also a hose bid to help with the cleaning and such.

I love how a salt finish looks but think I have heard they are not good where there is big freezes due to the holes filling up with water/snow and freezing then causing problems from that. I am not 100% sure to look into it and go from there.

Kim:kim:
 
Unions... i have to look in to exactly what that is and make sure they make it right. I will have the electrician put a light in over the pad, since hes already there anyway :) Good point about salt finish in my climate, it could definitely be an issue. Ive considered just having them stamp out a paver type pattern, or just a rock pattern in the normal grey concrete, and not finishing. My friend has stamped and hates sealing it every year or so, and even after 5 months, it looks like junk already. So its for sure regular (not dyed) concrete, brushed or stamped (but no sealing).
 
My concrete sub is actually really reasonably priced too.. 6$ a foot for normal, 9$ stamped without seal. I have 1000sq ft to do, so I need the good price. Ive thought about just doing normal basic concrete and doing a diamond pattern of expansion joints, just to give it a bit more flare, but without the cost, or maintenence of stamp (and seal)

Pacific-Concrete-Contractors-Driveway-Hand-Tooled-DiamondExpansion-Joints.jpg
 

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