Somethings amiss, need a diagnostics path

[bamaboy473]

new member here, hoping one of you can solve a little mystery for me.
14K salt water pool that stays clear all year long if I can help it, so I'm tending it regularly. It's outdoors among trees, no lanai.

Readings aren't consistent for several things. Salt test kit shows about 4600, AquaRite display shows 5100; the control unit is 20 years old, so ballpark close is okay with me.
Problem #1, occasionally the display will show salt to be 2700, and Low Salt/Check Cell lights are on. The Cell is new, to replace one where readings were also spastic. Thoughts on why this is happening, and WHAT takes the salt reading?

Problem #2, the Flow Switch was replaced expecting readings to stabilize. Different type of switch, and no change in the readings (NOTE: the reading for that were all Low Salt, which is why I added a number of bags and the result was a lot of salt, lol.

When the new cell didn't fix things, I put the old Flow Meter back in and nothing changed, so I put a Rubber Band on the contacts to hold them together, and the gizmo started working the way I'd expect.

Problem #3, this new generator will throw a HOT message from time to time, and our pool temps are in the 60s. WHAT takes the reading for Temp? WHY does the old generator not throw that message (assuming that the Flow Switch is the temp reader, why does one generator cause HOT and the other one doesn't?

Hope this isn't too much too soon, but after replacing the Flow Switch, and replacing the Generator, I'm still getting strange readings?

Sa

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

You have a lot going on there and you may have multiple problems.

What salt test are you using?

Your salt levels are high enough that they could be causing some of your problems. Aquarite boards can overheat and burn components. High salt levels cause high amps which causes more heat on the board components and cause failures. It is best to run the Aquarite at the low end of the salt range between 2800-3200 ppm for best life span.

On the Aquarite the temperature sensor is in the cell, not in the flow switch.

This is the basic information we need to know in diagnosing a problem:

• Report all readings when you..
  • Move the switch from auto to off and check all of the readings.
  • Move the switch back to auto and recheck the readings.
  • Move the switch to off for a minute and then back to auto and recheck the readings.
• What are the first seven characters of the cell and box serial numbers?
• What is the actual salinity and how are you measuring it?

I suggest you open up the cabinet and remove the board and look for signs of burning and overheating on solder points, the thermistor, and K1 and K2 relays.

You will find more information in Hayward Aquarite SWG - Further Reading

 

[bamaboy473]

thanks, ajw22, good info that I'll work on tomorrow. Interesting that I've drained about a foot of water out of the pool, but the salt "reading" hasn't changed much (from 5400 to 5100, and that's with the generator at 60%)

 

[bamaboy473]

What salt test are you using? AQUA-CHEK. CONSISTENT READINGS OF 7.4 TO 7.2

Your salt levels are high enough that they could be causing some of your problems. Aquarite boards can overheat and burn components. High salt levels cause high amps which causes more heat on the board components and cause failures. It is best to run the Aquarite at the low end of the salt range between 2800-3200 ppm for best life span.

On the Aquarite the temperature sensor is in the cell, not in the flow switch. THANKS

This is the basic information we need to know in diagnosing a problem:

• Report all readings when you..
  • Move the switch from auto to off and check all of the readings.
  • 5200...71...32.7...0... 45P... -0...0... 1.59...T15
  • Move the switch back to auto and recheck the readings.
  • 5200...71...25.7...8..58...45...-5100...0...1.59...t15
  • Move the switch to off for a minute and then back to auto and recheck the readings.
  • 5200...70...25.5...8.49...45P...-5200...0...1.59....T15
• What are the first seven characters of the cell and box serial numbers? ON THE BARCODE ARE 3A1105-1133286
• What is the actual salinity and how are you measuring it? AQUA CHEK STRIP READS 7.4 = 4200

I suggest you open up the cabinet and remove the board and look for signs of burning and overheating on solder points, the thermistor, and K1 and K2 relays. LOOKS PERFECT, NOTHING BROWN, NOT EVEN A TAN COLOR ANYWHERE.

 

[ajw22]

A 3A1105 barcode on the cell says the cell was manufactured in 2011. Could that be correct?

The diagnostics say your amps are 8.49-8.58. That is way too high and is due to your salt level of 5000+. You need to get your salt below the 3500 which should give you amps in the 6's.

An Aquacheck salt test kit is not as accurate as the TF-100 Salt Test which I suggest you get. You need to have an accurate salinity level to know what is going on with the SWG.

You need to drain about 30% of your pool or around 5,000 gallons.

Once you get your salt level down see if your SWG operates more reliably.

 

[bamaboy473]

10-4, I'll drain and fill tomorrow. The question is how salt got so high? I added 3 bags 2 months ago when the other cell was showing LowSalt and Check Cell. I diluted several times these past two weeks, but 6" at a time, so If dilution is the first step, we have a plan and will dilute 24" of water.

 

[ajw22]

What is the depth profile of your pool?

I don't think 24" will get you to below 3500 ppm of salt.

 

[bamaboy473]

Update: drained about 6" of water and filled; this is about 5% of the 14K volume . Hayward reading went from 5200 to 4800.
Aqua Chek went from 7.4 to 7.0, or about 4000 on their scale. I'm taking a sample to the pool store and let's let them provide a base line of salt for the pool.

 

[bamaboy473]

UPDATE: After replacing about 10% of the water in the pool, salt reading on the Hayward was at 4400, but AutoChek strip had gone to 3700. Took a sample to the pool store and the salt is, in fact, at 3700. The Hayward will not re-calibrate, however. Diagnostic button to what read -4400, up to Super then back down to Auto, then push to the new reading....no change at 4400. Am I doing the calibration correctly?

Readings with salt in range are 4400(3700), 67, 26.3, 7.55, 27P, -4500, 0/1.59/15

 

[ajw22]

What problem are you trying to fix?

Your cell is generating fine.

The system displays what it calculates the salinity to be and has no knowledge of what it actually is.

With your amps that high you run the risk of burning up something on the board.

A lower salt level will be better for the longevity of your system.

 

[bamaboy473]

OK, when do amps get too high to be safe for the board? Are they too high now, with salt at 3700? If I drain it another time 5% then salt should drop to 3400, but what amps are borderline?

 

[ajw22]

You keep on referencing the measured salinity that the board does not know about.

The system is running as though it is 4400.

You want your amps below 7. Get the system salinity down around 3500 and see how it performs.

 

[bamaboy473]

From your suggestion, it seems as though the 3700 number should show up on the board, rather than on check strips (where it read 3000). However, if the goal is to get amps below 7, then that's one to focus on.

 

[bamaboy473]

On the chance that we want the board to read an accurate salt count, is there anything short of replacing the board that can tweek the reading to what we want it to read (accurate count)?

 

[ajw22]

If the Aquarite system is displaying an accurate salinity it is coincidence since the Aquarite has no way to measure the salinity. The displayed salinity will change and diverge from actual salinity as the cell is depleted.

There is no separate salinity sensor in an AquaRite which some other model SWGs have.

Hayward Aquarite SWG - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[bamaboy473]

FWIW, the Hayward salt count was a bit higher this morning (4500). It wasn't generating so I pushed the diagnostic buttons until Instant Salt came up (-0) and hit Super then back down to Auto. Oh, darn, I messed up because the board all of the sudden switched to Check Cell, Low Salt, and the reading was now 2200. I left things be and 30 minutes later the reading was back at 4500. Does any of this information give clues? Again, my objective was primarily to learn the accurate salt reading, and since then it's to work with a Hayward screen that's off by 700...

 

[ajw22]

Clues to what? As has been said before the Hayward system does not give accurate salt readings.

With the high salt level your system perceived the system can be hitting 8 amps where the system shoudl shut itself down to prevent damage.

 

[bamaboy473]

If the Aquarite system is displaying an accurate salinity it is coincidence since the Aquarite has no way to measure the salinity. The displayed salinity will change and diverge from actual salinity as the cell is depleted.

There is no separate salinity sensor in an AquaRite which some other model SWGs have.

Hayward Aquarite SWG - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

This response is confusing to me. Where does the reading get it's information for salt content? If you say that the cell needs to be depleted in order for salinity to become close to accurate, my new cell has years to go, but that doesn't seem to be the right way to know what the salt level is.

Also, if a high reading of salt causes high Amps, then do we continue to reduce the salt content until Amps are below 7?

 

[ajw22]

This response is confusing to me. Where does the reading get it's information for salt content? If you say that the cell needs to be depleted in order for salinity to become close to accurate, my new cell has years to go, but that doesn't seem to be the right way to know what the salt level is.

Also, if a high reading of salt causes high Amps, then do we continue to reduce the salt content until Amps are below 7?

The AquaRite uses the performance of the cell to determine salinity. For each cell (T-3, T-5, T-9 OR T-15), Hayward knows the performance of a properly functioning cell at each temperature and salinity combination. The higher the salinity and/or water temperature, the higher the performance (chlorine output).

To get the performance of the cell, divide the instant salinity by the actual salinity. If the ratio is less than 75%, it's time for a new cell. For example, 2,000 (instant salinity) ÷ 3,600 (measured salinity with a test kit)=56%. Check the cell and clean it if necessary. If that doesn't work, it's time for a new cell.

There is no separate salinity sensor in an AquaRite. There are six wires going to the cell, two white, two black, one red and one blue wire.

Hayward Aquarite SWG - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[bamaboy473]

Great information about how to determine a cell's health. Since my cell is new, it's logical that the percentage is 100%.