Solar power installation

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jark87 said:
That’s more like it! I could handle that kind of investment and would see a relatively short ROI. Like @jeffchap we have 2 AC units and of course the pool, but our monthly electric bill isn’t horrible. I know I need to gather actual usage data for quotes, so it will be interesting to see what sized system would power our home.
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The federal solar credit will be 26% of the installed cost in 2022 and then 22% on 2023. In 2024 the credit expires unless Congress extends it again. Originally (2005) it was 30%. The credit is applied in the tax year that the system starts generating in. So even if you got the install in 2022 but the generation didn’t start until 2023, you only get the 2023 credit amount. And it only applies to systems you purchase, not leases.

www.energy.gov

Homeowner’s Guide to the Federal Tax Credit for Solar Photovoltaics

This guide provides an overview of the federal investment tax credit for those interested in residential solar photovoltaics, or PV.
www.energy.gov www.energy.gov
 
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I had monthly electric bills last summer over $650/mo. That was my impetus to look into solar. My water bill is about the same. In addition to the pool we have .57 acres, all irrigated. Next year's investment will be a well.
 
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JoyfulNoise said:
The credit is applied in the tax year that the system starts generating in. So even if you got the install in 2022 but the generation didn’t start until 2023, you only get the 2023 credit amount.
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That's not correct. Our system was not installed until March 2022, but we signed the contract in December 2021 and therefore got the credit on our 2021 taxes.

We didn't make our first payment until 60 days after the installation was complete, ie. May 2022.
 
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jeffchap said:
That's not correct. Our system was not installed until March 2022, but we signed the contract in December 2021 and therefore got the credit on our 2021 taxes.

We didn't make our first payment until 60 days after the installation was complete, ie. May 2022.
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The article states that the IRS has interpreted the rule such that a completed install equates to an “in service” -

The system must be placed in service during the tax year and generate electricity for a home located in the United States. There is no bright-line test from the IRS on what constitutes “placed in service,” but the IRS has equated it with completed installation.
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So depending on what you call a “completed installation” you could back date it to the previous tax year.
 
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JoyfulNoise said:
The article states that the IRS has interpreted the rule such that a completed install equates to an “in service” -

So depending on what you call a “completed installation” you could back date it to the previous tax year.
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That was true 10 years ago and why we rushed to get our system running by 12/31/12 (see lifetime start date in this post). It was not yet approved and properly connected to the public utility with their new bidirectional meter, but it was "in service" and producing power.
 
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Its only a matter of time before I get solar power on my roof. I have 2000 sq feet of southern facing roof that would be ideal for panels or a solar roof. Unfortunately that time is not now. The numbers just dont make sense yet. I will probably time it with when I have to replace my roof (sometime in the next 10 years). I will marry it with some sort of battery back up (ideally with a car that supports V2L) since I will need it to run during power failures. It is only a matter of time before a really big hurricane impacts my area.

For a while the costs were coming down every year, but supply chain, and inflation has put a stop to that, but I hope that is just temporary. There is finally another company GAF, that is about to offer solar roof panels. I would think a solar integrated roof would be the way to go, both in terms of esthetics and installation cost.

I am just going to have to wait for the technology to improve and for there to be more competition at it some point it will just make sense.
 
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One of the biggest boondoggles with solar in this area has been leasing arrangements and solar credit swapping. Solar companies have popped up like mushrooms to try to grab the cash being thrown around by state and local utilities and they have gone out of business in the blink of an eye. When they do, they often don’t inform their customers appropriately and then the panels get thrown into bankruptcy court where often a court appointed trustee has to find willing bidders to buy them. At that point, whatever leasing arrangements you had vaporize and you’re stuck waiting to see if the company that buys them will be only 10X worse and less responsive than the last guy or 100X worse. I have had experience with this through working on a charitable institution board that had to fight to get the panels out of bankruptcy and basically buy ourselves out of the defunct lease. Thankfully we were able to do that, get the solar credits for ourselves and possibly, maybe, if we are lucky, break-even financially on this total fail. Trying to find a service company willing to come out and get the system restarted and generating again has been a nightmare as well. No one wants to touch someone else’s work and if they can’t get a piece of the solar credit cash-pie, they’re even less interested in taking on your system.

Buy outright, never ever lease!
 
I would never consider leasing something like this (for the reasons Matt mentioned above). Leases are suited for short term use items (like if you change your car every 3 years) not for something you will potentially own for 25 years.

Also dont count on net metering to last forever. The utilities will put an end to that soon (Florida just tried). The bigger risk is that they also plan on charging new fees to connect to the grid which could further reduce the value of the panels. This one I find incredibly insidious as legally you cannot disconnect from the grid in many places.
 
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The reason I started my research is because I’m about to replace my roof. Apparently, there’s some labor savings if you do both at the same time, but that won’t force my hand. There will either be a favorable ROI or there won’t. If not, no harm done. If so, I’ll make the move. I’d love to have some level of protection from our shaky grid in Texas, even if just to provide a few hours of backup power for our rolling brownouts, but I can get that with a generator if solar doesn’t work out. It will be interesting to see the estimates, both for the overall costs and savings. I’ve contacted 2 installers who have been in business for more than 10 years, so hopefully I’ll avoid the fly by night scammers.
 
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Katodude said:
Also dont count on net metering to last forever. The utilities will put an end to that soon (Florida just tried). The bigger risk is that they also plan on charging new fees to connect to the grid which could further reduce the value of the panels. This one I find incredibly insidious as legally you cannot disconnect from the grid in many places.
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Yeah. That’s been talked about here as well. The utilities want new connection fees, lower rates for excess power, fewer available credits, and taxes levied on all systems based on size. I can kind of understand the argument as every new installation further reduces the money paid into the public utility and weakens the infrastructure but it certainly has the effect of making solar much less attractive. If the ROI pushes far enough past 10 years, there’s zero financial sense in anyone installing solar as most people flip houses in their younger years on time frames a lot shorter than 10 years.

I always joke that, around here, the only people installing solar and buying Teslas are the grey-haired ones heading into retirement with fat savings accounts. Young folks can’t afford any of that nonsense trying to raise families and keep food on the table …
 
When I ran the solar power game numbers a couple years ago I could not find a scenario where there was any ROI. It has only gotten worse since then with increased solar installation costs and drying-up solar governmental credits.

Also I believe the power purchase is not up to the utilities. De-regulation of the power industry paved the way for the utilities to have no choice but to purchase power thrown on the grid by independent power producers.
 
PoolGate said:
Also I believe the power purchase is not up to the utilities. De-regulation of the power industry paved the way for the utilities to have no choice but to purchase power thrown on the grid by independent power producers.
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Agreed, and not to go off on a tangent, but let’s be honest - in any state, these “public utility commissions” are about as politicized as it comes. They are either appointed positions or elected positions and the people that serve in them are always under the financial influence of the businesses they oversee. So the notion that these commissions will set or recommend rates structures that benefit the individual is somewhat laughable. In Arizona, we vote for members of the AZ Corporation Commission and the ACC has oversight, but not control, over utilities. They can study and recommend, but they can not control what cities or independent districts (or tribal areas) set as rates. So, in all honesty, it’s the utility providers that win every single time.
 
JoyfulNoise said:
So the notion that these commissions will set or recommend rates structures that benefit the individual is somewhat laughable.
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Yeah, our deregulated electricity market has cost Texas consumers $28B more than the traditional utilities and 13% more than the national average. I’m grateful that we never switched from our local utility back when retail power companies were popping up like weeds.
 
It will be interesting to see what quotes you get and configurations, especially ROI. Definitely post details (but not names). My neighbor did her system last October and they went with a local outfit that has been around for a long time and is actually "employee owned". They did a nice clean install job and are very well regarded by anyone I mention them to. They even did the entire sizing and quote remotely (two Zoom calls and a few e-mails) based on utility records and Google Earth/Satellite data of their property. All the other vendors they talked to wouldn't give them quotes without coming out to visit and one tried to hard sell them over the phone to go with them immediately and he'd get them a big discount. After they declined, that guy kept calling them for weeks to point where they had to break out the "you are now engaging in harassment" language and threatening to have their lawyer issue them a cease & desist letter (my neighbor's sister is a lawyer so that's an easy thing to get). The solar installer market can be shadier than the pool builder market.
 

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