SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on check sensor?

Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

Well now I am jealous! I want a magic but I don't do enough cool stuff to justify the cost at all.
I really couldnt justify the cost either, that was until i managed to buy/sell a few of them for a bit of profit :) just got around to opening and getting it rolling today.. some of the first shots.. I have another 3rd party drone (350 size) i've had for about 2 years as well, but it cant hold a candle to the clarity/range/features of the dji.

i added the video and some more pictures to the very first thread. I should mention, i dont normally like flying these in the suburbs, but this was mainly an above close range shot of the yard, so i stuck to the property limits to do this and the quad is very stable and mostly automated too.

Today around 3 or 4 i turned on the system.. happy to say no real leaks.. though, there is one small drip at the lower left, you can see in the photos where the elbow and bushing didnt quite go fully together. I thought about changing that out, but for the small drip, one about every 10 or 15 seconds, not sure its worth it. If i get adventurous maybe ill try this material i saw at ace hardware that hardens like steel and you can just wrap it around the area, assuming it seals it, unsure. Very minor either way.

Pressure gauge still holds at 18 psi with the solar in action. I was concerned at first that the one way valve before the return might have gotten stuck when glued, but when i shut the system off and turned it back on, you can see the hinge moving.. its just very slight, maybe due to the reduced GPM coming off of the panels.

You could feel a temperature difference in the inbound vs outbound pipes when touched up on the roof.. however, when i measured the flow in the pool with the meat thermometer i couldnt see a change in temperature of water vs return flow.. however, at that point the panels had only been on 40 minutes or so, and the air temperature was 64 roughly. Unsure why i couldnt measure it, given the warmer feeling pipe, but it may have been too early of a test.

The actuator system seems to work well (now that i took off the back 4 screws and adjusted the upper and lower cams to keep it either straight ahead/on or turned to the left/off). once shadows hit my roof after 6pm, the sensor picked this up and shut down the flow, moving the valve to the left blocking the solar pathway in the off position.

Tomorrow it will be 70F for a high and the rest of the week may average 78-85.. typically on those warmer days the pool would rise 4F.. it will be interesting to see now with solar if that number jumps up by 3 or 4 more.
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

Does anyone have any first hand experience with the see through jandy one way valve on the return from solar side and how much motion / deflection should be present on the flap inside the valve compared to the inbound filter side one?

My filter side one is noticeably pushed open, i think obviously due to the higher flow rate.. whereas the inbound one on the return from solar, i can hardly tell if its deflected.. i certainly see it pulse though, if you turn the system on and off..

I'm thinking i'm worrying for no reason though.


Minor Update on temp changes:

yesterday with minimal sun and relatively cool out, say 63F, the pool went up 2F, which i dont think would have happened without solar.
Today will be 70F sunny, so it will be interesting to see.. and tomorrow 80ish (last 80 day without solar panels jumped 4f by comparison, so stats will be coming by weds night, for an 80F day, i'm hoping to see 7 or 8 instead of 4, using solar)
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

My check valve just barely looks open when I run the pump on low speed, and is pinned to the top on high speed. Do you have the bypass open any?
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

My check valve just barely looks open when I run the pump on low speed, and is pinned to the top on high speed. Do you have the bypass open any?
Yeah, thats what i assumed, that the lower speed on the return is why it looks like its barely open.. When you say do i have the bypass open any.. what did you mean by that.. i mean, i have the 3 way diverter which then sends it to the solar panels and also to the return on the middle split and then comes back.. if its in the off position (pointing left) then the solar is off.. middle point then 3 way in action.. (i have both valves on the garage wall at full open)
actuator1b.jpg
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

I didn't know if your 3-way was set to bypass the panels any or if they got everything from your pump sent through them. If the check valve is on the return from the panels, and the 3-way is letting some water bypass the panels, that would explain the difference in the check valves. If it's all going through the panels then I would guess maybe it's the difference in velocity of the water right after the pump opening that check valve more, and it has slowed down by the time it gets to the other one.
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

I didn't know if your 3-way was set to bypass the panels any or if they got everything from your pump sent through them. If the check valve is on the return from the panels, and the 3-way is letting some water bypass the panels, that would explain the difference in the check valves. If it's all going through the panels then I would guess maybe it's the difference in velocity of the water right after the pump opening that check valve more, and it has slowed down by the time it gets to the other one.
Did you mean if the handle was in a sort of in between position, to have less water going to the panel? It was my understanding i didnt need to do any sort of in between setting.. so long as the flow rate was good enough.. yeah i'd wager its just because of the reduced flow coming back.. on that first day of running them after 1.5 hours, i couldnt register a difference in return flow vs filter water temps, but it was too early i think (even though pipes felt different). Later today ill check again though.
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

Yeah, I didn't know if it was in the middle letting some water bypass the panels. One of the other guys will have to nail down the bypass setting being necessary or not. I've read all about them and the theories of operation, and pressure on the panels, etc. From what I remember you basically want the panels to have almost zero pressure right at the top so the panels aren't pressurized, then gravity pulls the water back down supplying pressure on the way back to the pool.
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

Yeah, I didn't know if it was in the middle letting some water bypass the panels. One of the other guys will have to nail down the bypass setting being necessary or not. I've read all about them and the theories of operation, and pressure on the panels, etc. From what I remember you basically want the panels to have almost zero pressure right at the top so the panels aren't pressurized, then gravity pulls the water back down supplying pressure on the way back to the pool.
I think it was commented that basically to make sure the panels dont feel "hot or warm" to the touch, then you know you have the right pressure.. I guess one other way would be to check it directly.. disconnect union just after the 3 way solar path and let it go into a bucket somehow, measure the rate (or put one of those drill in pressure gauges on the outflow better yet).


Update on todays temp increase.. after 5.5 hours, the pool has risen about 6F on a 67F day.. this was at least 4F more than expected (full sun today).. so living up to its "3-4F per day increase".. tomorrow will be another test at 80.
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

You don't want them to be warm, but you don't want them to be pressurized either. I'm liking the results. Still hopeful for the end of the season for mine.
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

If you disconnect the union that changes the head loss which changes the flow rate. You just need the panels to feel cool to the touch and you know you have enough flow.
 

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Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

If you disconnect the union if that's changed the head loss which changes the flow rate. You just need the panels to feel cool to the touch and you know you have enough flow.

Just to clarify for my own understanding, you want them to have JUST enough flow, but not too much? Or is the pressure possibly a non issue? I thought I had read that you didn't want pressure on the panels, but want to make sure.
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

You have to have some pressure to keep the VRV closed.
The more flow, the higher the heating efficiency.
But, if you force too much flow, I suppose that would put your panels at risk.

I have a 500 sqft array with a 1HP pump ... so I can put all the flow through the panels (in fact I wish I had a little more as I am sub 1GPM/10sqft right now).
If you have a small array and a large pump, then you need to worry more about too much pressure.

If you have the adjustability, start with low flow through the solar and keep slowly increasing it until they feel cool and the VRV is closed. Going much beyond that does not add too much more heat to the pool.
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

[emoji1360] So with mine, I'll never have a worry. I have a 1.5hp pump, and will have 400sq ft of panels with a 140ft run each way. I was curious with the OP's setup having a 1.5hp pump, a fairly short run, and 160sq ft of panels. May be a non issue. I just thought i had read it in one of the solar design threads.
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

With 160 sqft, typically only want around 16 GPM going through the solar. So, there should certainly be a good portion that is bypassed around the solar.

Remember that 1.5HP is not the only thing you need to know. A 1.5 Superflo will move MUCH less water than a 1.5 Whisperflo. I have a 1HP Superflo so that is one of the smallest in-ground pumps.
 
SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

Ok. I knew there was some math or a ratio in there somewhere. I assume with the whisperflo and superflo, noise is the big difference between the two? Yours has a more efficient impeller where the whisperflo is less efficient, but quieter? So, without having any flow meters on a system, would the simplest way to find the optimum amount of flow be to bypass the system on a warm/hot day, then slowly increase the amount of water through the panels until they are cool to the touch?
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

The names have nothing to do with the noise. They are just a different pump design, the Whisperflo moves a lot more water (and uses more electricity to do it) with the same HP motor. You can see this by comparing the head curves and looking at the flow rate for a given head loss.

Yes, I agree that would be a good method to get the correct flow rate.
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

Usually the solar will only add a couple PSI just due to the added pipe length the water is travelling through. Going to the roof and back down cancels each other out as far as that added head loss.

If you are trying to push too much water through the solar, I would think that would further restrict the flow and increase the pressure even more.
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

Usually the solar will only add a couple PSI just due to the added pipe length the water is travelling through. Going to the roof and back down cancels each other out as far as that added head loss.

If you are trying to push too much water through the solar, I would think that would further restrict the flow and increase the pressure even more.
So i guess the fact that its no different either way is not a bad sign then i guess.. or i hope
 
Re: SmartPool/Fafco Solar panel install.. build notes/questions on 3 way placement

The names have nothing to do with the noise. They are just a different pump design, the Whisperflo moves a lot more water (and uses more electricity to do it) with the same HP motor. You can see this by comparing the head curves and looking at the flow rate for a given head loss.

Yes, I agree that would be a good method to get the correct flow rate.

Do they have a different sf motor, or is it truly apples to apples? If so, it's just different impeller sizes/designs using more or less of the available hp? Seems noise would be a factor, but I guess it wouldn't have to be. I guess it'd be like using a 1hp rated impeller with a 1.5hp pump. You'd have less load, and therefore less current draw while still using a 1.5hp pump.
 

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