Should I Convert Pool Lights to 12v?

[JamesW]

I think that that would work, but check with a local electrician to make sure it meets local code.

The amperage increases by a factor of 10 as the voltage decreases by a factor of 10.

So, a 300 watt output at 12 volts is 25 amps.

You would have to wire 120 volts to the transformer primary input side and then 3 wires from the secondary side of the transformer back into the box to the relays and then 3 wires back to the transformer and out to the lights.

I think that the 120 volt wires need to be separated from the 12 volt wires.

So, one conduit from the Jandy box to the transformer with 3 wires (Black, White and Green) and one conduit from the Jandy box to the transformer with 6 wires for the lights.

 

[SuperDupe]

I think that that would work, but check with a local electrician to make sure it meets local code.

The amperage increases by a factor of 10 as the voltage decreases by a factor of 10.

So, a 300 watt output at 12 volts is 25 amps.

You would have to wire 120 volts to the transformer primary input side and then 3 wires from the secondary side of the transformer back into the box to the relays and then 3 wires back to the transformer and out to the lights.

I think that the 120 volt wires need to be separated from the 12 volt wires.

So, one conduit from the Jandy box to the transformer with 3 wires (Black, White and Green) and one conduit from the Jandy box to the transformer with 6 wires for the lights.

Ok, that.s what I was thinking... Thanks again for the advice!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Aren’t you violating safety code if you mix low voltage and high voltage wiring in the same panel? The purpose of the transformer is to not only step down the voltage but also to isolate the wiring so there’s no chance of high voltage wiring contacting the low voltage side. This is why they use toroidal cores with separated windings and isolate each side inside the box with plastic panels. If you start sending low voltage wiring back into the Jandy box for independent switching, then it’s no longer isolated. I could be wrong …

 

[SuperDupe]

Aren’t you violating safety code if you mix low voltage and high voltage wiring in the same panel? The purpose of the transformer is to not only step down the voltage but also to isolate the wiring so there’s no chance of high voltage wiring contacting the low voltage side. This is why they use toroidal cores with separated windings and isolate each side inside the box with plastic panels. If you start sending low voltage wiring back into the Jandy box for independent switching, then it’s no longer isolated. I could be wrong …

Probably... I have no idea if there is a code preventing this... But I don't have unlimited wall space near my pool equipment and really don't want to have 72 boxes there... I get the idea and it makes sense why that would be something to avoid... Unfortunately, the Jandy box is where I have the breakers and the relays... So to be within code, I would need to separate it all out? If I had to do that, I guess I have to, but I'm really more concerned with the actual electrical physics and if it would work... Can I send the 12v power to whereveer the relays are to control the pool and only use one transformer?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Probably... I have no idea if there is a code preventing this... But I don't have unlimited wall space near my pool equipment and really don't want to have 72 boxes there... I get the idea and it makes sense why that would be something to avoid... Unfortunately, the Jandy box is where I have the breakers and the relays... So to be within code, I would need to separate it all out? If I had to do that, I guess I have to, but I'm really more concerned with the actual electrical physics and if it would work... Can I send the 12v power to whereveer the relays are to control the pool and only use one transformer?

You need to check the operating specs for the exact relay used in the Jandy panel. It will tell you what the control voltage is and what voltage range the relay can switch on and off. I suspect the relay will be fine but you never know if there’s a threshold voltage minimum to the relay. They come in all sizes and varieties so best to check.

This is exactly why, 10 years ago, I went with standard 120V incandescent halogen lights. The EasyTouch panel is simple to setup and, as long as you use the proper GFCI breaker, it’s entirely safe. Low voltage LED pool lights are still in their infancy as far as I am concerned. My halogen lights have lasted 10+ years now. Read a few threads here on TFP and you’ll be lucky to get 3 years on these color-changing LED gizmos that cost $1000 a pop to replace when they burn out.

 

[JamesW]

Can I send the 12v power to wherever the relays are to control the pool and only use one transformer?

That will work.

You are just putting the switch on the low voltage wires instead of the high voltage wires.

The relays are double pole, so you can break both wires or just one for each light (3 up and 3 back for a total of 6).

To send both wires to the relays and then back would require 12 wires and a big conduit.

Conduits have fill limits, so you can't just put all of the wires in a conduit because they fit.

You have to make sure that the conduits are big enough for the size and quantity of wires.

All of the subpanels from Jandy, Pentair and Hayward have low voltage in the same box for things like relays (24 VDC), SWGs (24 VDC) and Valves (24 VAC).

Typically, you want to keep them separated as much as possible.

You can install a separate generic outdoor electrical box and move the relays into the box and install fuses in the box as well.

You would just have to extend the 24 VDC wires that go to the relays from the Jandy AquaLink RS to the generic box.

However, at that point you are adding two boxes, so you might as well get (3) 100 watt transformers instead.

Maybe check with Jandy and/or an electrician to see if it is OK.

 

[JamesW]

you never know if there’s a threshold voltage minimum to the relay.

There is no minimum, only a maximum.

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[SuperDupe]

Thank you everyone for all the help and suggestions!

 

[flynwill]

To Matt's comment. Generally low-voltage and high voltage are allowed in the same box as long as the insulation on all the wiring is rated for the highest voltage in the box. So make the runs from the transformer the the relays and back with THHN wire of the appropriate gauge.

 

[Ahultin]

Aren’t you violating safety code if you mix low voltage and high voltage wiring in the same panel? The purpose of the transformer is to not only step down the voltage but also to isolate the wiring so there’s no chance of high voltage wiring contacting the low voltage side. This is why they use toroidal cores with separated windings and isolate each side inside the box with plastic panels. If you start sending low voltage wiring back into the Jandy box for independent switching, then it’s no longer isolated. I could be wrong …

While this seems logical and is ideal, I was told by our county inspector that it is not the case so long as the wire passing thru is approved for line voltage. This seems to be backed up by the inclusion of the transformers for both the swg and the system being in the line voltage compartment. In our case, initially the pb had run the 12v wires for the lights from the junction box, thru the load center , then to the transformer. While it was deemed acceptable, it seemed at least moderately unsafe when there was a fully safe alternative. I ultimately re-wired the low voltage so it did not travel thru the load center.

 

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@JamesW You recommended this Intermatic transformer with the J&J Electronics PureWhite Cool White LED Pool Lamp, 28W, 12V. This seems to be pretty much what I want to do, but I found a cheaper transformer that is only 60W here Amazon.com
that I think should work since I need only one light. Do you see any issues?
Just a couple more questions:
1. The transformer output is 12VAC. The light doesn't specify whether it is AC or DC but I assume it is AC. Is this correct?
2. The screw broke off when I was removing the light and it says it grounds the fixture, but since I am converting to 12V, I don't think this is necessary, is this correct? If not, do you know how I can replace the screw? I have used an "Easy-Out" working on cars but can't drill under water and I don't want to drain the pool.
3. Assuming I don't need the screw, do you know of an underwater bonding to hold the light into the cavity? I have seen some underwater two part epoxy putty, but that may bond it too much if I ever have to remove it again. Thanks!