Should I add borate to my pool?

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poolshrinker

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Jun 4, 2016
93
Portland OR metro
Every year our pool is pretty simple. We add lots and lots of bleach, some CYA, and the pH takes care of itself. If I don’t fall behind, I never have to do anything else all summer except add a little water once in a while, backflush, and add chlorine.

I have finisehd SLAMming. Chlorine is drifting back down and is currently at 9. CYA is 40.

1. pH is lower than usual, 6.8.
2. TA is 70.

The water feels a little ‘hard’. School Pool says borate can improve water feel, raise TA a little, and raise pH. Is this something I should add this year? Or should I run any other tests?
 
Your TA is fine and let your pH rise naturally. No reason to do anything.

What is your CH?
 
poolshrinker said:
what will cause my pH to rise naturally?
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Your TA of 70.

You can help the pH rise with Aeration - Further Reading
poolshrinker said:
Also, how do I improve the water feel? It doesn’t feel as smooth as usual - I assume that will get better when pH is better, but borate also supposed to help.
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That is very subjective.

If you are set on borates then go for it - Borates in pool - Further Reading

poolshrinker said:
I don’t test CH - it’s always been zero when I do.
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I would add 100 - 200 ppm of CH and see if it changes your water feel.
 
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If you choose to add borates, you can drop your chlorine use (probably) by about a 1/3. The water does feel softer and has a beautiful sheen. Borates also buffer against pH rise (as opposed to CYA and total alkalinity buffering against pH dropping). Borates are an algaestat NOT an algaecide, so they will help to prevent algae from getting started, but if you already have algae they do nothing to help. I've used them for years and like the effect they have on chlorine usage and water quality.

Although I recommend them, borates are an option, they can help manage the pool, but many (probably most) people elect not to use them. If you do decide to try them, I recommend (granulated not powdered) Boric Acid and the supplier Duda Diesel. Further TFP reading is here.
 
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thank you both - we have boxes of 20 Mule Team Borax 4 lb each, thanks to daughter’s slime infatuation. It’s easy to sprinkle a box across the pool this week and see how things look a week from now. PoolMath says 8 lb = 2 boxes but we can start at one.

I’ll check CH - if it is indeed at zero, it sounds like I would add the most unadulterrated form of calcium from the pool store? If it has some chlorine in it I guess no big deal? Just check FC before and after and maybe I’ll need to add less bleach for a bit?
 
ajw22 said:
We do not recommend any changes to the FC level when using borates.
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From TFP, "Borates help prevent algae. Borates won't completely prevent algae from growing, but they do slow down algae growth and make it easier to kill off when you do get algae."

Anything that "slow down algae growth and make it easier to kill off," by definition, decreases chlorine demand. Right?
 
It’s is highly unusual to have zero CH in any terrestrial water source, be it a well or a municipal supply. Only rain water that is directly captured and not allow to contact any earth will have zero CH.

I would retest your water and/or check the reagents you are using. It sounds like testing error to me.
 
Gotta Pool said:
From TFP, "Borates help prevent algae. Borates won't completely prevent algae from growing, but they do slow down algae growth and make it easier to kill off when you do get algae."

Anything that "slow down algae growth and make it easier to kill off," by definition, decreases chlorine demand. Right?
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Whether or not borates reduce chlorine demand depends a lot on a particular pools situation and there are plenty of people that have used borates and have seen zero improvement in their pool.

TFP doesn’t recommend changing the FC/CYA ratio used in any pool simply because borates are present.

If a user should see an improvement in chlorine demand, then they will simply be adding chlorine less frequently but should not change their target FC level.
 
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I didn’t notice any change to the feel of my water when I added borates. And no change to the chlorine demand, the SWG stayed on the same settings.
 
Gotta Pool said:
From TFP, "Borates help prevent algae. Borates won't completely prevent algae from growing, but they do slow down algae growth and make it easier to kill off when you do get algae."
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Our thinking and experience with borates has evolved since that was posted 9 years ago.
 
If you maintain the FC/CyA ratio there won’t be any algae. And without algae there’s no algae to prevent.
 
Just one pool owner's experience, but I was having trouble with scaling on our SWG, despite keeping overall pool chemistry tightly controlled (pH and CSI, in particular). Someone here suggested adding borates as a possible fix, and it absolutely cured that problem. SWG has been virtually spotless for about the last two years and counting. But if I wasn't using a SWG, it wouldn't seem like there would be much reason to add borates.
 
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poolshrinker said:
thank you both - we have boxes of 20 Mule Team Borax 4 lb each, thanks to daughter’s slime infatuation. It’s easy to sprinkle a box across the pool this week and see how things look a week from now. PoolMath says 8 lb = 2 boxes but we can start at one.

I’ll check CH - if it is indeed at zero, it sounds like I would add the most unadulterrated form of calcium from the pool store? If it has some chlorine in it I guess no big deal? Just check FC before and after and maybe I’ll need to add less bleach for a bit?
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Be sure you understand this in its entirety before you start. You are going to need a lot of 4 lb boxes of Borax and even more muriatic acid. If you put in the Borax without having the MA at hand, your pH will fly off of the chart! If you need to increase CH, Amazon, not the pool store, is your friend.
 
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If you are going to bump up your CH, buy this: Snow Joe 20 lb. 94% Pure Calcium Chloride Ice Melt Pellets MELT20CPP - The Home Depot
Far, far cheaper than even the cheapest at a pool store. They deliver. You will need 30+ pounds of it, if really at 0 now, to get to 200 ppm.
Shop carefully - what looks to be Calcium Chloride "ice melt" may have a variety of additives (salt, Magnesium Chloride, etc.) that you don't want in your pool.

If you are after water feel, you may also consider adding salt to the pool. You should get the TFP recommended salt testing kit, but without a SWCG, you don't need to get all the way to the ~3000-4000 ppm they call for.
Mine's at 3200, and while I can sort of taste it, no one else that has used it can. But all who use it comment on the water feel. And I can float without an inner tube!
It won't change any of your other chem levels, nor will it hurt anything.

But...over time, the Cl additions also produce salt. So you may be highish already. And adding Cl will slowly move you higher. In which case you may have to do a partial drain to bring it down. A lot depends on how much make-up water you add during the year after backwashing/vacuuming to waste, and the amount of rain you get.
 
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