Need a little help advice for equipment. Long story short my pool builder is scamming me and he will be dealt with after the fact but I need to finish my pool. At this point I need equipment and pebble finish. I have a few bids for pebble, stonescapes, wet edge and pebble tec. I know wet edge and pebble tec have to use certified installers but the guy that does stonescapes was highly recommended as well. Is there a major difference between the 3 when looking at samples seems like all 3 all very similar? On equipment I am getting install prices all over the map. I need a 400k NG heater. 2 pumps, SWG, cartridge filter, blower and control system. I have 2 electric panels outside by pad all wired to main pane ready to go. And all my plumbing is stubbed within 10’ of the pad. I have 3 quotes to install this from $1500,$5500, 8500. I feel hooking up this equipment is basically a 1-2 day job. I am a home builder so I see what electricians and plumbers can do in a day. I’m good paying a fair price but seems $1500-$2500 seems reasonable. But 5500-8500 seems like guys taking advantage as they see a HO that is trying to do this on his own at this point. Just curious on where pricing like this should be. Also, I am going back and forth between pentair and Jandy equipment. Just wanted to see what everyone’s opinion on these are. Seems like most down here in N.Georgia like Jandy. Just curious your opinions. Thanks!
Setup for pool
- Thread starter Bradly2osu
- Start date
One more question on pool setup, so pool is 36x18 main water and has an additional 9x18 tanning ledge. I have 3 bubblers on tanning ledge, 2 water descents, 8 jets in spa, 2 skimmers, and I’ll have a blower for spa. There is a spillover on spa as well. I know I’ll need 2 pumps, but I’m not sure the best setup for pumps. I live in N ga. So for 5 months of the year I’ll probably just use the spa and not the pool. So I use the big pump for pool and bubblers and other for spa and water descents? Or what would be the best way to use these. For clarification my pool builder screwed me after tile and coping was mostly done that’s why I’m at this point in my own. Just looking for advice from others with Similar setups.
Some pictures are always welcomed.
How far along are you into the construction? Plaster done?
Do you have automation system? What are mfg and models of the pumps?
If you wish to have the water decents and bubblers on while you are in Spa Mode then those features need to be on a separate pump because they only return water to the pool.
Unless you have some special spa jets, it is fine to have the same pump run the pool and the spa. You can also set up a spillover mode. For clarification, there are 3 modes for the plumbing
Pool Mode - suction from the pool (main drain, skimmers, etc) and return to the pool
Spa Mode - suction from the spa (spa drain) and return to the spa (spa jets)
Spillover Mode - suction from the pool and return to the spa and then the spa spills over into the pool.
If you set up a second pump to run all your water features, you can then operate those in any mode noted above. There will be a sidewall drain in the pool and the water features return to the pool
How far along are you into the construction? Plaster done?
Do you have automation system? What are mfg and models of the pumps?
If you wish to have the water decents and bubblers on while you are in Spa Mode then those features need to be on a separate pump because they only return water to the pool.
Unless you have some special spa jets, it is fine to have the same pump run the pool and the spa. You can also set up a spillover mode. For clarification, there are 3 modes for the plumbing
Pool Mode - suction from the pool (main drain, skimmers, etc) and return to the pool
Spa Mode - suction from the spa (spa drain) and return to the spa (spa jets)
Spillover Mode - suction from the pool and return to the spa and then the spa spills over into the pool.
If you set up a second pump to run all your water features, you can then operate those in any mode noted above. There will be a sidewall drain in the pool and the water features return to the pool
It would be best to keep all your construction questions in 1 thread.
@kimkats ??
That is correct. This is their only build thread. They do have an intro thread but this their main thread. We will keep it all here going forward.
@kimkats ??
That is correct. This is their only build thread. They do have an intro thread but this their main thread. We will keep it all here going forward.
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks, so I haven’t purchased equipment I’m actually looking to get that done this week. Yes I’d prefer an automation system. I have a few guys that have quoted me to install but a lot of them prefer Jandy? Don’t know much about them, I have a buddy out of state that works for a pool company and they use all pentair. So if there’s something you recommend id appreciate any opinions and why. But the equipment I was looking at buying was 400k NG heater, 2 VS pumps 2+ HP for pool spa, and not sure the size I’d need for 3 bubblers and 2 water decents,blower, cartridge filter, SWG, 4 LED lights, and whatever automation system with the brand I’m buying. Attached are a few pictures.
Attachments
- Jun 1, 2018
- 16,027
- Pool Size
- 26000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Are these quotes apples to apples or are some including the equipment & some not?
That makes a big difference & would make sense for the discrepancy.
That makes a big difference & would make sense for the discrepancy.
- Jun 1, 2018
- 16,027
- Pool Size
- 26000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
To add: your pool is too large for even the largest jandy or hayward swcg so pentair (ic60 swcg) would be the way to go
What is your plan for suction of the 2 separate pumps. I see 2 skimmers, and I assume a main drain in the pool and a spa drain. Normally a water feature would have a dedicated suction from a wall suction pipe. I could not determine based on your photos that you have that wall suction.
Do you have a picture of the equipment pad pipes and if so, are they marked where they lead to in the pool?
Agree with @Mdragger88 that your best option for a SWCG is the Pentair IC60 as we recommend sizing the SWCG to be 2x your pool volume. The IC60 is rated to 60k gals and there are no bigger in the residential market. Therefore you should go with a Pentair IntelliFlo3 VS pump 3Hp and a Pentair NG 400k BTU heater and a Pentair 420 sq ft or the 520 sq ft Cartridge Filter. Then you would tie all of this together in a Pentair IntelliCenter Automation system.
A second pump can be the same IntelliFlo3 or can select a different Pentair pump however, just need to ensure your PB did put in a separate suction line for that second pump.
Well good question, the pipes are not marked. So in the pool I have 3 - 1 1/2” for bubblers, There’s 5 - 1-1/2” pipes I’m assuming they are all returns maybe one is a suction? 3 are stubbed on side opposite of spa and 2 on the spa side. Then there’s 2-2” pipes at the floor of pool I was assuming both were drains. Then 3- 2” for lights. In the spa I have 8 -1 1/2” for jets, 2-2” assuming drains on the floor and 1-2” for a light. Where my pipes are stubbed out by my pad I have 4-2” and 4-1 1/2”. I do have My plumber coming to do a pressure test on the lines so I will be able to determine where they all run.
Yes this is for a single main drain. They have to split the suction to be compliant with the regulations to avoid entrapment.
Your spa drain is same set up. This would be the same set up but mounted on the wall - qty 2 - 2 inch pipes about 30 inches or so apart.
Normally a second pump used for water feature does not go through the main pool filter, but it may have a small inline filter to catch small debris.
So let know what the plumber tells you and ask him how the second pump suction will be set up?
So
so looks like the 5 - 1-1/2” lines are all returns. Doesn’t look like there’s a suction for a second pump. Unless they put it in the spa but that makes no sense with How the pipes are aligned. If this is the case what is the best way to get suction to get another pump. These guys are saying one big pump should do everything but I’m not sure how that’ll work. Would a 3hp be able to do everything? And would you be able to turn those features off while running others? I’m assuming that’s just a valve that can be controlled from phone?
Pictures would help if you can of the pipes at the equipment pad.
Also mark them if they are suction or return to pool or water features, etc
On suction side - are your skimmers independently plumbed back to the pad or are they joined together underground with 1 pipe facing up at the pad? Your pool main drain should be 1 2-in line and another 2-in line should be the spa main drain. So you either have 3 or 4 suction lines at the pad. What did the plumber say? You stated earlier that there were qty 4 2-in lines - do we know they are connected to the 2 skimmers, 1 main pool drain and 1 spa drain?
On the return side how many pipes are there at the pad? You state there are qty 4 1.5-in lines. The 5 returns are most likely all connected in a loop underground so that would be qty 1 1.5-in pipe at the pad. The bubblers could be 3 separate lines or just 1 (being connected underground to the 3 bubblers). Same for water feature, is it 1 line to both water features or does each have its own line at the pad? My guess is 4 you indicated are - 1 for pool returns, 1 for the 3 bubblers and 1 each for the 2 water features. This needs to be confirmed.
If you have a portable air compressor you may be able to force air into each line at the pad and see where the exit is. Depends on what volume of air it can put out. Or you can also use water.
A single 3Hp VS pump can handle all flow but most likely not all at the same time. The most noticeable will be the 2 water features and how far they cascade out into the pool.
Once you confirm what pipes are going where then we can draw up options as to how to control.
Something for you to consider - have the water feature pump connected to the main pool drain and only have the 2 skimmers as suction for the main pool circulation. There are many pools that do not even have a main drain, so you are not giving up any functionality.
If one pump runs all the features, then when you are in Spa mode, that is the only circulation you will have - suction from spa and return to spa. You will not be able to turn on the water features or the bubblers. However, if you connect the 2nd pump to the main drain - then the water features and bubblers can be operated in any mode - Pool mode or Spa Mode.
Also mark them if they are suction or return to pool or water features, etc
On suction side - are your skimmers independently plumbed back to the pad or are they joined together underground with 1 pipe facing up at the pad? Your pool main drain should be 1 2-in line and another 2-in line should be the spa main drain. So you either have 3 or 4 suction lines at the pad. What did the plumber say? You stated earlier that there were qty 4 2-in lines - do we know they are connected to the 2 skimmers, 1 main pool drain and 1 spa drain?
On the return side how many pipes are there at the pad? You state there are qty 4 1.5-in lines. The 5 returns are most likely all connected in a loop underground so that would be qty 1 1.5-in pipe at the pad. The bubblers could be 3 separate lines or just 1 (being connected underground to the 3 bubblers). Same for water feature, is it 1 line to both water features or does each have its own line at the pad? My guess is 4 you indicated are - 1 for pool returns, 1 for the 3 bubblers and 1 each for the 2 water features. This needs to be confirmed.
If you have a portable air compressor you may be able to force air into each line at the pad and see where the exit is. Depends on what volume of air it can put out. Or you can also use water.
A single 3Hp VS pump can handle all flow but most likely not all at the same time. The most noticeable will be the 2 water features and how far they cascade out into the pool.
Once you confirm what pipes are going where then we can draw up options as to how to control.
Something for you to consider - have the water feature pump connected to the main pool drain and only have the 2 skimmers as suction for the main pool circulation. There are many pools that do not even have a main drain, so you are not giving up any functionality.
If one pump runs all the features, then when you are in Spa mode, that is the only circulation you will have - suction from spa and return to spa. You will not be able to turn on the water features or the bubblers. However, if you connect the 2nd pump to the main drain - then the water features and bubblers can be operated in any mode - Pool mode or Spa Mode.
Ok. So there’s a pipe for pool drain and spa drain that are both stubbed up by pad. Also each skimmer is separately ran to the pad. So I should be able to pull off the main drain for a suction for a second pump. Yesterday I had another guy come out and look at and give me some ideas for equipment. He told me buying a salt chlorine generator rated for 40k gallons was big enough. Why have a few of you recommended having twice the size of pool volume for this? I guess it’s a little confusing if manufacture has it rated for this why would I need double?
That is a good plan since the skimmers are independently plumbed - so if 1 skimmer has an issue, you can isolate it and still have a functioning pool circulation.
The rating of a SWCG is at 100% output. What you will find that running at 100% will not give you a lot of flexibility on how many hours to run the pump, etc. Basically there are 3 variables to optimize a SWCG - Output %, Pump Run Time and Chlorine ppm created. So if you want 3 ppm of chlorine produced over 24 hrs that will be x% output and y Hrs of run time
So there are multiple answers for x & y. However if you are forced to run your SWCG at 80-100% then your selection of pump hours is minimal.
By having a SWCG rated 2x your pool volume - you open up the various solutions to the selection of % output and pump run hours for a given PPM output.
Please read
SWG How It Works - Further Reading
www.troublefreepool.com
We simply want to give you the most flexibility with only a minor increase in cost to go from a IC40 to an IC60.
Also remember - service techs and PB do not have to live with the daily operation of your pool like you do. Once they sell you something then they are gone. So to be competitive, they quote the minimal standard but that may not be what is best for the daily operation.
So if I were to get an IC60 is that compatible with Jandy automation? The main Reason I ask is maybe the suppliers here all want to sell Jandy but every guy that ive talked to regarding equipment likes how Jandy’s warranties are with ease of use. They say all the equipment has issues but jandy’s is the easiest to take care of if something does happen.
Yeah, Jandy is great for warranty issues. Except when you're out of the warranty, you're less than dirt to them and you cannot buy most replacement parts since they only deal with their precious "authorized providers". On top of it, at it's core, Aqualink is a 25+ year old system that has been dragged kicking and screaming into 2023 and it shows. IMO, I would never install Jandy automation in a new build.
The Aqualink system cannot control a Pentair cell.
The only thing I would be considering in your position is IntelliCenter and an IC-60.
The Aqualink system cannot control a Pentair cell.
The only thing I would be considering in your position is IntelliCenter and an IC-60.
Ok lastly, as far as lights and blower I would assume to go with pentair as well so everything is the same or will other brands work with the automation on those specific areas. As far as my second pump that will run the water descents would you still go with a v.s pump at like a 1.5 hp or a standard pump with 1hp. Wasn’t sure how big that would have to be and if it would need to be a VS. There are 2 - 24” water descents about 25’ and 40’ from pump. And about 3’ elevation.
On the intellicenter it seems theres a lot of parts to that, I’m not exactly sure what all I would need. Here’s how I’d want it set up. have the controls at the box, and then use my phone to control everything. I do have cat 6 cables on my patio about 15’ from where box would be mounded. Just wasn’t sure how that part worked.
Again, thanks for all your inputs. Been a frustrating process and would prefer to get the rest of this done right the first time.
On the intellicenter it seems theres a lot of parts to that, I’m not exactly sure what all I would need. Here’s how I’d want it set up. have the controls at the box, and then use my phone to control everything. I do have cat 6 cables on my patio about 15’ from where box would be mounded. Just wasn’t sure how that part worked.
Again, thanks for all your inputs. Been a frustrating process and would prefer to get the rest of this done right the first time.
No - Brands such as Jandy and Pentair only are compatible with their own automation systems. Since we are recommending the IC60 because of your pool volume then it would be best to go with the Pentair IntelliCenter automation.
You can purchase a package IntelliCenter with an IC60 and 2 automated actuators which is less expensive then purchasing the items separately.
While Jandy is a workable automation system, their SWCG is only rated to 40k gals so it is not the best product for your pool. Jandy has done some updates on their firmware but most everyone would recommend going with Pentair if you were purchasing new.
Many lights are compatible with the different automation systems, you would need to get specific info on the light you want. So to be safe, it is best to purchase Pentair lights with the IntelliCenter.
The blower does not matter as it is a simple on-off switch.
I would go with a VS pump. Maybe @JamesW can provide some more details since you have given some data on type of water decents.
The IntellICenter will contain the circuit breakers for each major piece of equipment and it will also have an antenna for connection to the internet or you can use the direct connection with Cat 6 cable since that seems feasible.