Setting heat pump

[Nikiraf]

Hi everyone. I'm glad that I have found this forum and thanks for sharing your knowledge
I just bought Zodiac Z200 M4 pump for my 50m3 concrete pool.
When we where building the pool 10 years ago we planned to add solar panels for water heating but after some research I realise that het pump is much better solution.
As we didn't plan to add pool heater now I'm having a little bit problem to connect pool heater.
1. Is it mandatory to connect heat pump immediately after the pool pump? Right now I have 4 pipes that goes from the pool pump and returns the water into the pool. So probably I must reorganise my pipes and connect heat pump immediately after the pool pump? It is not not good idea for example to connect only 1-2 of 4 pipes to the pool heater?
2. I'm planning to put heat pump approximately 7m from the pool pump. Is that ok or I need to put it more close to the pool pump?
Not sure how much noice heat pump produce and if it will be ok to put it 3m from the pool?

Right now I have I timer that runs pool pump from 10PM to 6Am and from 1PM to 4PM. As I saw on here on one topic pool heater can't work when pool pump is of. So my question is should I reprogram timer so the pump run some other time. Not sure what is best time to run it. I wan't to have nice temperature of the water around 9AM and during the day.
Electricity in my country has 3 tariff. From 10PM to 6AM we have 3x cheaper electricity.

3. What is cheaper/better to tun heat pump during the night when outside temperature is lower and electricity is cheaper or running t from the morning when temperature is little bit higher but price of the electricity is higher.

4. Is there a way to connect pull pump with pool heater so pool pump don't turn off while heat pump is working(can heat pump somehow force pool pump to run until the water reach programmed temperature)?

Heat pump has capacity of 8-10 m3/h and pool pump has 15m3/h

I apologise if I'm a 'little' bit confusing with my explanation

EDIT:
Here is the picture of the pool and the place where I planned to put heat pump

 

[HermanTX]

Hi Welcome to TFP.
Couple of points to your specific questions.
The heater should be after the filter so you have clean water going through your heater. From the heater the exit pipe can connect to as many returns as you have to flow to the pool. Most of time it is set up with a pipe to a 2-way valve with 1 exit to a spa and the other to the pool. You do not have a spa so just connect the pipe from your heater to a pipe to your 4 returns to the pool. You could put a valve on each return if you wish to direct return flow to certain areas of the pool. See my rough sketch.

There is no maximum distance between the difference pieces of equipment. The longer the pipe run the more your pump has to push and also if it is above ground you will have heat loss in your pipework as well.

Most heaters have a series of sensors to operate. One of those is a flow sensor. So you must have flow or your heater will not click on. Also, when you turn your heater off your pump will not be able to be turned off until the heater cools down. This is all built into the logic of your heater and your installer should set it up properly.

 

[Nikiraf]

Hi Herman and thanks for your replay. I appreciate
Regarding the returning pipes, yea. I need to make some changes in my 'pool room' so I can connect pipe directly to heat pump and then to fork it back to the pool with 4 pipes that I already have. I also have valves on every pipe as it is on your sketch.

Regarding this:

Also, when you turn your heater off your pump will not be able to be turned off until the heater cools down. This is all built into the logic of your heater and your installer should set it up properly.

How this can be done?
Is there some connection between pool pump and pool heater beside water flow. How heater pump can inform pool pump not to turn off until heat pump cools down?
As I can see there is not electric connection between pool pump and heat pump

I can keep my pool pump connected on a timer so pool pump can be turned on/off?

What happen when pool pump runs from example from 6AM to 9AM(set on timer). Pool pump starts and heat pump will detect water flow and will start to heat water. When pool pump get turned off with timer at 9AM and water temperature didn't reach temperature that is set, that shouldn't be a problem?

 

[Homebrewale]

There is no cooling down of a heat pump. That would be a concern with a gas heater. My heat pump comes on if there is sufficient water flow and the water temperature is below the set temperature of the heat pump. If the pool pump is shut off or in case of my VSP, I turn down the rpms so water flow is inadequate for the heat pump, the heat pump shuts off. There will be a flow error displayed on my heat pump. It is correct to install the heat pump after the filter. Also you should chlorinate the water after the heat pump. In my case, my salt water chlorine generator is after the heat pump.

You ask if it is cheaper to run at night when your electricity rates are lower. That would be hard to answer without doing an analysis. The heat pump runs more efficiently at higher air temperatures. That's because there is more heat to extract from the air to add to the water. Therefore, the heat pump will run more efficiently during the middle of day when the air temperature is usually at its highest for the day. Yet with your large difference in electricity costs between day and night use, the lower efficiency at night may overcome the higher daytime electricity rates. Since you expressed a concern over running costs, a solar cover to reduce heat losses will help lower your cost of running a heat pump.

As for noise, they are not quiet. The only thing louder on my pool equipment is my VSP running at 100% rpms. I have my heat pump on the side of my house with a very large shrub between it and the pool. It seems to reduce the noise. Where you suggest installing the heat pump, you may want to consider some kind of sound-reducing wall between the heat pump and pool.

 

[Nikiraf]

Thanks Homebrewale.
After reading manual for the heat pump I realised that pool pump is connected with pool heater and that pool heater can tell when the pool pump will be turned off.
Here is sketch form the manual:


So I understand that one now

Regarding the cost. I need to test it and see how it will go. I get that It is better to run when the outside temp is higher. I will probably put cover and schedule heat pump to heat early in the morning.

Regarding the noice, it is nice idea to put some kind of the shrub. That can work. Good suggestion

 

[Nikiraf]

The pump in in installing process. Currently it is set up like this which is a little bit ugly.



The guy who is installing the pump said that he put it on this frame because of the dust and dirt. He is concered that if he puts it on the ground that it will collect a lot of grass, dust and dirt. Any suggestion? Can I put it on the ground and make concrete area around the pump 3x3ft for example or maybe just to add some shrub around the pump as Homebrewale suggested

 

[Homebrewale]

A heat pump isn't that much different from an AC unit where air is pulled in with a fan over coils. Yet how many elevated AC units in non-flood areas do you see? Mine sits on a plastic mounting pad that is surrounded by mulch. I hose the coils off after pollen season every year.

 

[Nikiraf]

Yea. I should but it on the ground.
Currently I have different problem. Heat pump is not heating the water well. It was running for 24h and the temperature stays the same. When I check water that goes back to the pool water is a little bit hot. I will write question in different topic regarding this issue

 

[Homebrewale]

It's possible that you are losing heat as fast as your heat pump is producing it. Also you need to make sure the heat pump is sized properly. To solve the heat loss, you need a solar cover. In the spring and fall when I need my heat pump, the pool temperature goes down several degrees even with the solar cover on the pool. Then the heat pump spends a good portion of the day bringing the temperature back up to the set point. Also the heat pump needs to be large enough for the volume of water in your pool. I had a heat pump that couldn't keep up with heat losses. It was sized barely large enough for my pool. I replaced it with a different one with a higher heat output. This one works better at maintaining temperature.

 

[Nikiraf]

This heat pump is for 40-60 m3 and my pool is 50m3. Heat pump is 11.4KW. Pool temperature was at 71-72 without the pump. After running pump for 24h water temp stays the same. And outside temperature is 77. It must heat pool a little bit during the day. With this outside temperature it must be efficient.
Only one thing I found that is not ok. On the pump there is button SET that will show pool water temperature and it shows 80 but the pool temperature is 72( I checked with pool thermostat that 100% works.). Heat pump is set to 84(on 82 it won't start the pump) So the pool detect 80 and probably it warm water a little bit because there is a differents only 4 farenheit. I have checked the manual and I can't see that there is a option to calibrate thermostat.

 

[Nikiraf]

All good with heat pump. The problem is thermostat. Pump detect 5 degrees more than the actual pool water temperature. I did calibration and temperature was good. I check day after and pump now shows 10 degrees less than water temperature. So there is some problem with thermostat. I will try do do calibration again, and if needed few times and see how it will go. The pump is new by the way

 

[Homebrewale]

If it is new and under warranty, you may want to see if they'll replace the thermostat.