Scale, I need help please

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Lykly said:
Thanks, once it cools off a bit I may dig a bit to see if I can find it. No way to back wash the line with it in place.
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So are you positive there is a check valve? Have you tried to backflush?

Very few pools have check valves on the pool lines. No need for them unless the pump is several feet above the pool water line.
 
Yes I tried backwashing as you told me to do. I could not get it to flow the other direction at all, in fact the pump basket filled up and stayed full. My pumps are probably 8 feet above the waterline as mentioned in a previous post in this thread. In fact I think I took a video to show that earlier today. As far as being positive there's a check valve, I can't be but the fact that the water flows from my skimmer to the pump and then when I tried to backflush it it filled completely up and never lost any water going back makes me think there is. I would think that after I tried backwashing and couldn't get it to go and the water level stayed plum full at my pump and never lost anything, I would think that it would at least drain back some if there was no check valve? The lines not plug completely or I couldn't get water coming to the pump. It does pull some from the skimmer and it will work...I only have the trouble when I try pulling only from that skimmer. When I tried back washing it, my wife was at the skimmer and never seen any indication of anything. This tells me the water does not want to flow to the skimmer, but it will flow some to the pump. Sounds like a check valve to me, unless you think it could be something else?


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Like I mentioned before, I was too lazy to read through all the threads but the pump height makes sense for a check valve. If the PB did put one in, my guess is it would be right below where the line drops into the ground.
 
Thanks mas985, i'm thinking it would be worth my time to at least dig down and see if something is hung up in the check valve that would probably be the most likely spot? Maybe not either since it seems to be working. Do you think I should try putting a hose at the skimmer and trying to push it through that way? Or do you think that could make things worse?


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putting the hose in the skimmer and sealing it off will only tell you there is flow at the pump basket.
I'd be cautious and eliminate all above ground connections before digging. An air leak would manifest itself in all configurations and especially when isolated directly to that problem basket.
You've basically proven that it's not an air leak from the above videos.

I'd want to open the Jandy valve and check that portion of the 3-way port for an obstruction prior to digging. Possible there is a failed gasket obstructing the skimmer port showing as a cavitation when the pump runs at higher speed.

There's also a possiblility that no debris are in the line and when everything was glued up some PVC&glue are causing a flow restriction at an elbow/45 that create enough of a pressure drop for pipe cavitation to occur
 
Thanks basod. All the plumbing and valves were replaced when I put in the variable speed pump, and this problem was present with the earlier pump which was a single speed 1 hp,, everything from about 6 inches above the ground up is new. This problem was present before all the plumbing was done so I'm pretty confident it is not the valves. As far as I know, this problem may have been since it was new, I have no way of knowing. The variable speed pump is probably a couple months old at best, I was hoping when I changed the pump out that might alleviate this problem. No such luck.



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Just an update, one full day with the new SWG, I have noticed a couple things different. On the original cell, I was maintaining around 4 to 5 ppm chlorine with the exact same settings I have now with the new cell. After 24 hours, I noticed some very slight scale, I'm thinking could even be possibly some that was still in the system and the chlorine is at 6.5 ppm. All I did was change the cell I did not change any settings and it apparently is making much more chlorine. Also the pool is used to two swimmers for a few hours a day. Last night and all day today I have had all five grandchildren in the pool pretty much nonstop during daylight hours. Still maintaining 6.5 ppm, so the cell is obviously generating much more chlorine then the other cell was. I'm keeping my fingers crossed on the scale, it may be from all the activity in the pool I'm not seeing it I will know for sure in the morning.



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It sounds like a restricted pipe if the condition was present before the pump& plumbing changeout.
Any chance you can see down in the problem skimmer and determine if it is solid PVC pipe or PVC spa/flex hose - it'll look spiral wound inside.

I had a suction side problem ~4yrs ago and my pool was built with the PVC flex line. Over the years of settling the line had kinked and finally created an air leak. In my case it wasn't terribly bad to resolve as the pool is decked in 2x6PT lumber. When backfilling lines like these it is important to start from a fixed end and work out towards a non-fixed end(same problem can happen with regular pipe) Strain induced from backfilling both directions will cause a bow in the center of the piping that can break or kink down the road.
 
Thx basod.....I will do that, is just now getting dark here. Once it gets completely dark I will shut the pump down and use a flashlight....that would probably be the best time to look.

Any thoughts on the new salt water generator? It is putting out much more chlorine than the old one did at the same setting. Also I can't say for sure but so far it appears to be putting out less scale, but I won't know that for sure until tomorrow morning. Something is definitely different as it's definitely making more chlorine than the old one did.


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Old SWG cells will produce considerably less chlorine than a new cell. That's how you can tell if the cell is failing and why the salt readout drops as well. I was running close to 100% when my last cell finally died. Now with the same pump run time, it is set to 35% and producing about the same FC as the old cell did at 100%.
 
Yes, but the cell I replaced was brand-new, probably less than 30 days old. The reason I had it replaced as it was producing so much scale. Hayward agreed to change out the cell to see if it would help. I will know if the scale problem is better, it appears to be, but it's too soon to tell. I was just wondering if it does indeed produce less scale and is putting out way more chlorine, maybe I had a bad cell? Could it be possible to have a cell that would produce more than normal scale and less chlorine than normal?


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basod said:
Any chance you can see down in the problem skimmer and determine if it is solid PVC pipe or PVC spa/flex hose - it'll look spiral wound inside.
Click to expand...

OK I shut all the pumps off and took a flashlight and looked, it definitely looks like regular PVC pipe connected to the bottom of both skimmers. It appears to be very smooth regular looking PVC pipe, no spiral at all. I did notice where it 90s off on the bottom I can see some blue stuff but I think it is the blue residue from glue but can't be sure. I need to find something long enough to reach down and see if it is something else. I can see a little bit in the other skimmer as well but is obvious just glue in that skimmer.


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How can it be that my TA went from ~100 to 120? I tested the water tonight hoping the TA may be lower as I have been trying to lower it, and it was 120? I tested three times with new solutions on the 3rd test, it is 120. I have added no new water, no rain. Odd. I just tested it yesterday it was ~90-100.... Been bringing it down from ~300 since plaster a few months ago. Been sitting around 100 for a couple weeks.


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I'm not sure what happened, but in addition to the rise with my TA, my CH went from 200 to 300, it's like water was added from my well but I didn't do that, looked at my sprinkler system no obvious signs of anything there. Water level does not seem higher either. I will just have to wait and see what happens. There is never a dull moment owning these pools. LOL


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pooldv said:
I'd be inclined to use a plumber's snake to check for obstructions.
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I would hate to think a PB would have installed a check valve below grade. If it were a swing check there is a possibility that the snake could get hung up on the disk as you try to retrieve it. If it were a spring check the snake would not be able to force open the disk depending on how far a way from the skimmer. Has there been a time when the skimmer basket wasn't in place and a larger object could have been introduced to the suction piping? All I know is my kid ran an experiment when he was 6 years old to see what happens when you flush a baseball sized wad of electrical tape down the toilet.

So you don't burn up your pump from the cavitation you could "throttle" the return valves so that you still have flow but it will add a little back pressure on the discharge side of your pump. NEVER "throttle" the suction side of you pump.

(I do throttle the suction side of the main drain valve when I am vacuuming to give greater suction to the skimmer line, but I am very careful to do so.)
 
Zappafan said:
I would hate to think a PB would have installed a check valve below grade. If it were a swing check there is a possibility that the snake could get hung up on the disk as you try to retrieve it. If it were a spring check the snake would not be able to force open the disk depending on how far a way from the skimmer. Has there been a time when the skimmer basket wasn't in place and a larger object could have been introduced to the suction piping? All I know is my kid ran an experiment when he was 6 years old to see what happens when you flush a baseball sized wad of electrical tape down the toilet.

So you don't burn up your pump from the cavitation you could "throttle" the return valves so that you still have flow but it will add a little back pressure on the discharge side of your pump. NEVER "throttle" the suction side of you pump.

(I do throttle the suction side of the main drain valve when I am vacuuming to give greater suction to the skimmer line, but I am very careful to do so.)
Click to expand...

The only time I have trouble with that skimmer is when I close all other valves, as long as the other valves are open it pulls from all valves including that trouble skimmer. When I have both skimmers and floor drain open even the skimmer that's giving me problems still will pull debris into the basket. Only time I see the cavitation is when I pull exclusively from the skimmer line.

I have only owned this property for around six months, the pool I'm guessing is 9 to 10 years old similar to when this home was built. The problem existed when I moved in. So I really have no idea if something could've gotten down that skimmer line to partially block it. Your advice about a snake and a check valve is appreciated, I don't know that it's worth a chance since things are working at least adequately. I would have more serious problems if I got a snake hung up in the line. I think when the weather cools off, but I might bust away the flagstone where the lines come up from the ground to my pumps and dig down to see if a check valve is there, hopefully located close to the pumps. From what I understand even though the pumps are approximately 8 feet above the water level in the pool, normally the check valve would still be near the pump? Based on what I've done so far, trying to backwash, I am pretty convinced there is a check valve in the line. I could not backwash and the line stayed completely full of water never losing any, at least not in a few minutes time.


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In the pipefitting industry there are many integrated components. Do you have pictures of the valves and or any information tags on them that would tell us that they are something other than just PVC ball valves? A check valve is a serviceable item I just don't think even the dumbest PB would put one in the ground, never assume anything right? Yes is should be located just before the skimmer basket at the pump preferably in the riser to keep back pressure on the disk. This would intern keep your pump from having to be primed every time you shut the pump off and on. On my system I do not have a check so I manually shut off my suction valves when I shut off my pump. It is just part of my daily routine. It takes one second. Personally I turn my pump on around 6 am add 17oz of bleach go to work come home run my Cl and pH test usually add 32 oz bleach typical depending on swimmer load, shut pump off around 6pm. All of which takes about a total of 10 minutes out of my day, then enjoy.

- - - Updated - - -

I also apologize, I have not read your entire thread.
 

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