Sanity check...new inground pool & spa filled a week ago....Pebble Sheen finish.

[brug]

Hello!

We've had a small pool and spa built in our courtyard. We just moved to the region last summer and have never owned a pool. This PB was the highest quote we got but the sales guy was super responsive and patient with our million questions, and an acquaintance had a great experience with them a couple years ago. Everything was great until the day we paid our deposit, but it's been a giant mess since. There have been some legitimate weather issues but that doesn't explain many of the delays and general failure of planning, organization, and accountability on their part. It's been extremely frustrating and I just want to be done with these people. As we're (hopefully) wrapping up, I'm wondering if some of you more experienced pool owners can help us understand what is reasonable to expect from the PB. We have so very many questions, but to begin with:

Aqua Blue Pebble Sheen finish
1. When we had the pool designed, and according to manufacturer instructions, the heater can't be turned on before 14 days after the installation. Our PB is now telling us 30 days. Any ideas why? I have asked several times, but like most questions, they haven't responded. "

• "DO wait at least 14 days before heating the water and monitor chemical balance more closely after you turn on your heater."

2. There is at least one brownish stain on a step. Will it go away, or should we ask them to fix it?


Travertine decking
1. We thought we saw cracks in some of the pavers during installation, but we were told it's veining. We were finally able to clean the decking this weekend, and with all the grime off...it looks like what they called veins are cracks that were repaired with some kind of glue. They stand out a lot and mar the uniform-but-textured look we were going for on the pool deck. Do these look like natural veins?


2. The holes for the drain covers are quite a bit larger than the drain covers, and the drain covers don't conceal the PVC piping. It seems like it looks kind of junky? Is this normal?


3. Gaps between the pavers...should these be filled with sand or something?


4. There's also some weird pitting type thing happening here and there. It almost looks like there is an epoxy fill?


Lueders limestone coping
1. We were told months ago they would be power washing and sealing the coping, but as far as we know, that never happened. We have asked *many* times but they simply don't respond. Now the coping is stained and pitted. Should we ask for it to be replaced, or is this normal?


Tile
1. There is some white residue on the tile in many places. I think it's adhesive from the plastic that was protecting the tile. Is it reasonable to ask them to clean this up?


I've used up my per-post allotment of pictures so will leave it here for now. Thank you!

 

[PoolGate]

Not using the heater with new plaster is to protect the heater. The dust from the plaster can collect within the heat exchanger and cause issues. Waiting a full month is not out of line. I waited a full month with mine. Realistically, after 2 weeks as long as you have been brushing several times a day you are probably ok.

The plaster job is sloppy. Tiles also looks to me like they are not using first quality stone but leftovers and such from other jobs. That hazing on the last couple pics is just a lazy tile guy with no pride in his work and didn't finish up very well. I assume you have paid your builder all the money he is owed so far? You should keep pressing the builder to come out and address the issues. If a tile is not acceptable, ask them to replace it. Same with the cleaning and general sloppiness.

Not sure about the stain it might come out with a light acid wash. Ask your builder and see what he says.

Oh - drain is about normal for those type drains. Tile work around the drain is sloppy.

Can you fill out your sig-line like you see mine below? Helps us greatly address your problems!

 

[tampatommy]

We had sand brushed into our travertine paver joints. Some are packed more tightly than others, i have a few joints that dont have much sand. Not that big of a deal to me. As far as the drain goes, they have to cut the hole in the stone and since the drain falls in between two pavers, it would be very difficult to get them 100% perfectly round. Our deck jets have similar cuts and i dont think you would be able to get much better in that department.

I only see the white haze on the second to last picture by the skimmer mouth, not the pic after that. Our tile guy did a final acid wash of the tile which removed any excess thinset or grout haze that was left on the glass tile.

 

[setsailsoon]

Brug,

Welcome to TFP and so sorry this is happening to you!

Wow, very sloppy work! And defective tiles that already seem to have cracks at least on the surface. We see this time and time again. Time to get your contract out and look at the warranty provisions. You'll probably find you can't rely on your contract since it is always one-way in PB's favor unless you're a very experienced negotiator. But that doesn't mean you're out of luck. If you don't want to deal any more with him anymore that's certainly up to you. Usually it's at least a demonstration of good faith to approach him. But completely understandable if you want to skip that step. If you want to put in some effort I'd pursue a financial settlement with the builder. Let the experts here comment on what is reasonable to expect. Then develop a repair scope of work. Get at least 2 quotes for reputable, qualified contractors. Use this as the basis for negotiating a settlement. If that doesn't work ratchet up the ante with a letter from an attorney. But don't plan to go to court... that will almost never pay off. But his reputation may be important to him and that is your best leverage. More on this later if you decide to go this route.

Sounds like you're so tired of this guy that you don't care about recovery and if that's the way you feel that's the right answer.

I'm so sorry you had to deal with this and wish you best of luck in getting past this to enjoying your new pool! The good news is that you've found a whole armada of experts with no conflicts of interest. They are all on your side and will help whichever way you go!

Chris

 

[brug]

Not using the heater with new plaster is to protect the heater. The dust from the plaster can collect within the heat exchanger and cause issues. Waiting a full month is not out of line. I waited a full month with mine. Realistically, after 2 weeks as long as you have been brushing several times a day you are probably ok.

The plaster job is sloppy. Tiles also looks to me like they are not using first quality stone but leftovers and such from other jobs. That hazing on the last couple pics is just a lazy tile guy with no pride in his work and didn't finish up very well. I assume you have paid your builder all the money he is owed so far? You should keep pressing the builder to come out and address the issues. If a tile is not acceptable, ask them to replace it. Same with the cleaning and general sloppiness.

Not sure about the stain it might come out with a light acid wash. Ask your builder and see what he says.

Oh - drain is about normal for those type drains. Tile work around the drain is sloppy.

Can you fill out your sig-line like you see mine below? Helps us greatly address your problems!

I'll work on my signature tomorrow; thanks for the tip! We have paid them everything we owe so far, over 90% of the total quote. They're slow or completely unresponsive about literally everything except collecting their money. If any other part of the company could be as efficient as invoicing, they'd be building every pool in town.

Can you tell me what is sloppy about the plaster? The color variation is my shadow; is there something else we should be looking at?

Someone should have the job of homeowner advocate in pool builds. We would happily have paid someone to walk us through this and help us understand what to look for.

 

[brug]

We had sand brushed into our travertine paver joints. Some are packed more tightly than others, i have a few joints that dont have much sand. Not that big of a deal to me. As far as the drain goes, they have to cut the hole in the stone and since the drain falls in between two pavers, it would be very difficult to get them 100% perfectly round. Our deck jets have similar cuts and i dont think you would be able to get much better in that department.

I only see the white haze on the second to last picture by the skimmer mouth, not the pic after that. Our tile guy did a final acid wash of the tile which removed any excess thinset or grout haze that was left on the glass tile.

It's hard to get a picture of the white residue; in fact it's more extreme in the skimmer photo (lower right corner of the mouth) than IRL. In the other picture, what looks like light reflection is the goopy reside I am talking about. It's different from grout haze; kind of peels off like glue.

Thanks for your feedback!

 

[brug]

Brug,

Welcome to TFP and so sorry this is happening to you!

Wow, very sloppy work! And defective tiles that already seem to have cracks at least on the surface. We see this time and time again. Time to get your contract out and look at the warranty provisions. You'll probably find you can't rely on your contract since it is always one-way in PB's favor unless you're a very experienced negotiator. But that doesn't mean you're out of luck. If you don't want to deal any more with him anymore that's certainly up to you. Usually it's at least a demonstration of good faith to approach him. But completely understandable if you want to skip that step. If you want to put in some effort I'd pursue a financial settlement with the builder. Let the experts here comment on what is reasonable to expect. Then develop a repair scope of work. Get at least 2 quotes for reputable, qualified contractors. Use this as the basis for negotiating a settlement. If that doesn't work ratchet up the ante with a letter from an attorney. But don't plan to go to court... that will almost never pay off. But his reputation may be important to him and that is your best leverage. More on this later if you decide to go this route.

Sounds like you're so tired of this guy that you don't care about recovery and if that's the way you feel that's the right answer.

I'm so sorry you had to deal with this and wish you best of luck in getting past this to enjoying your new pool! The good news is that you've found a whole armada of experts with no conflicts of interest. They are all on your side and will help whichever way you go!

Chris

We are not skilled at negotiating, unfortunately. The owner prides himself on his "No BS contract"...but I'm sure he's found a way to protect himself. I have never dealt with a company so utterly disinterested in doing things right the first time, and owning up to their obvious mistakes.

I didn't mention this in my initial post because there are just so many problems it would take a novel to get into all of them, but there is a leak coming from the pool or its plumbing that is draining into our front yard, saturating our lawn and the neighbor's. We've been asking the PB for a week to address this and every day they have another excuse about why we don't understand evaporation or it's not a leak or whatever. Our yard is flooding and the sidewalk has a constant puddle and the pool is losing over an inch a day...but they just shrug. Today we finally laid into them and tomorrow they are supposedly going to deal with it.

There's no amount of asking nicely, reasoning, showing past conversations, sending photos, begging, cajoling, etc. that gets these people to do what they're supposed to do. They respond only when yelled at. And we hate yelling. That's why I sound so defeated. I feel like, in order to get this thing done, we have to act in ways that make us feel like unreasonable people. And they are utterly incapable of planning so it's never done and just...a constant source of stress and concern. And the neighbors are upset and etc. etc. etc. And it cost a fortune; we live in an upscale, booming area and it seems like all projects are priced accordingly. And it's taking many months longer than promised when we cut the first check (but not in the contract, naturally). And I don't want to have to know if the plaster is done properly or whatever--that's what we're paying them for. If I knew how to build a pool, I'd do it myself.

We have talked about getting an attorney involved many times because we are so frustrated with the whole thing and just kind of want to offload the arguing to someone else, but we're afraid they will just stop working altogether if we escalate it.

I've always wanted my own pool and was so excited to have one, and now it's hard to imagine even being able to enjoy it.

Sorry for the long venting, and thanks for your empathy and advice! I really do appreciate it.

 

[CaveDiver1932]

Non responsiveness is just bad business. Hope you have a good update to provide.

The step with the mark.
If it’s just on the surface, the plasterer should be able to remove it without to much trouble. If it is leaching from underneath even they get it off the surface, it may come back.

Travertine decking
It does appear the type of travertine used is honed and filled. They could have done a better job in selecting product. It does not appear they cracked it and glued. More likely it came that way from the supplier. Unfortunately some product from Mexico is not of highest quality. I believe in dfw area Mexico and Italy are the main sources of travertine. It’s a shame you had to clean off the grime, contractor should clean the work site and make the pool area presentable.

The holes for the drain covers and gaps
I’ve seen worse. Are they finished with sand filling?

Lueders
That appears to be efflorescence. It seems common with Lueders supplied in this area. If it was sealed, I would expect it to bead when water is on it. Like a waxed car.

Your pb should be happy to address your concerns and work with the subs to resolve. It appears a little care to workmanship/a little materials and the issues can be resolved.

It’s always a good idea to work a payment plan with last to be paid on completion of a punch list.

 

[brug]

I *think* they've finally sent someone competent who might be interested in wrapping things up properly. He seems to know it's been a mess, so I am guessing I am not their only frustrated client.

The decking turns out to be limestone from Mexico, not the travertine I asked for, so we'll have to figure that out.

They are not finished sand filling; I know they are planning to put polymerized sand in some places but will ask for clarity on that.

The lueders were sealed but under improper conditions, so they're being stripped and resealed.

Overall, I am very cautiously optimistic. The feedback in this thread has been very helpful! Thank you!

 

[BtrLvngThruChem]

I don't like the brown rusty looking spot you highlighted in one of your photos. If you take a couple of vitamin C tablets, put them in a sock and press them against the spot, the spot will hopefully disappear. If it doesn't disappear or it comes back, there is a good chance that the rust is coming from rebar that is either at or just below the surface of the pool. I'm telling you this because I just learned that I have the problem and that its quite serious. They have to drain the pool, drill the rebar out, apply a patch and then resurface the area of the patch. I don't have cost estimates yet, but have been told to expect in the range of $1500.

 

[brug]

I don't like the brown rusty looking spot you highlighted in one of your photos. If you take a couple of vitamin C tablets, put them in a sock and press them against the spot, the spot will hopefully disappear. If it doesn't disappear or it comes back, there is a good chance that the rust is coming from rebar that is either at or just below the surface of the pool. I'm telling you this because I just learned that I have the problem and that its quite serious. They have to drain the pool, drill the rebar out, apply a patch and then resurface the area of the patch. I don't have cost estimates yet, but have been told to expect in the range of $1500.

That spot did go away, with no recurrence yet. But that's super helpful information to keep in mind; thank you!

 

[sktn77a]

Well, you have one ace up your sleeve - don't make the final payment until EVERYTHING is finished to your COMPLETE satisfaction. If they complain and keep billing you or threaten a lien, just remind them the final payment will be made when they have completed the job.

 

[brug]

Well, you have one ace up your sleeve - don't make the final payment until EVERYTHING is finished to your COMPLETE satisfaction. If they complain and keep billing you or threaten a lien, just remind them the final payment will be made when they have completed the job.

Thank you! We have been withholding the final payment. I wish we had withheld at least one previous payment also, but we were really trying to be cooperative and work things out with them. We're over nine months now since we paid our deposit...I think it's close but the coping doesn't look right. I started another thread asking about that, but in the meantime I've learned that the pool failed the last inspection that was done in January, and the permit expires June 11.