Salt water pool and CYA question

[crosby1612]

Brand new pool was plastered and filled about 2 weeks ago. We've been brushing, adjusting pH, alkalinity, and chlorine levels. The salt is being added in 2 more weeks. Currently CYA levels are fairly low, we were told by the project manager to just use the chlorine tabs with the stabilizer for now.

The PM was at the house today and I asked about CYA once the salt is added and the salt cell starts doing it thing.

He said there's no need to add CYA to a salt pool since it's constantly producing chlorine and the levels will remain fairly stable.

I posted this to Reddit and got a pretty violent reaction from folks there. The guys an idiot; fire him; find another pool guy; etc etc.

Some of the points were valid, for instance the salt cell will have to work overtime to keep up with the chlorine demand leading to early failure and replacement. And CYA is cheaper than a salt cell.

I'm a total noob with this so I'm just trying to understand what to do and how best to go about it.

He is our project manager, he's with a large national pool construction company. They don't do ongoing pool maintenance but he's doing our pool school for us. He seems to be very knowledgeable and feels strongly about not using CYA.

Pool is about 11k gal, we're in Richmond VA.

From what I'm gathering, CYA is a given despite what I'm being told?

Any help, insight, and constructive thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Thank you

 

[kul]

WELCOME. You need CYA. The amount depends on if your chlorinating with liquid chlorine or a SWG. some reading below
Pool Care Basics
FC/CYA Levels
Test Kits Compared
PoolMath

 

[wayner]

You will probably get an even bigger response here that he is a complete idiot and has no idea what he is talking about.

The salt cell will not have to work overtime with higher CYA around ~70 and FC around 3 which are the low end of the suggested levels for CYA and FC with a SWCG. The reason for that is that the chlorine is more stable and won't burn off when it is buffered by CYA.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

For pools with a saltwater chlorine generator SWG, TFP recommends a CYA level of at least 60 ppm. In your climate, 60 PPM should be sufficient. Maintain free chlorine levels according to the FC/CYA Levels.

What Are My Ideal Pool Levels?

Use our tool to find ideal chemical levels for any swimming pool. Check TFP recommended levels on pH, free chlorine, cyanuric acid, and more.

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Newdude]

Some of the points were valid, for instance the salt cell will have to work overtime to keep up with the chlorine demand leading to early failure and replacement

The cell can't overcome no CYA. Most of us realize our CYA got low when we see the FC plummet. And we still have 40 or 50 in there.

But as the CYA increases, the FC needs to increase proportionately to match it. All lines on this chart are equal for sanitizing. Steer clear of minimum at all times, allowing some wiggle room.

 

[AUSpool]

Brand new pool was plastered and filled about 2 weeks ago. We've been brushing, adjusting pH, alkalinity, and chlorine levels. The salt is being added in 2 more weeks. Currently CYA levels are fairly low, we were told by the project manager to just use the chlorine tabs with the stabilizer for now.

The PM was at the house today and I asked about CYA once the salt is added and the salt cell starts doing it thing.

He said there's no need to add CYA to a salt pool since it's constantly producing chlorine and the levels will remain fairly stable.

I posted this to Reddit and got a pretty violent reaction from folks there. The guys an idiot; fire him; find another pool guy; etc etc.

Some of the points were valid, for instance the salt cell will have to work overtime to keep up with the chlorine demand leading to early failure and replacement. And CYA is cheaper than a salt cell.

I'm a total noob with this so I'm just trying to understand what to do and how best to go about it.

He is our project manager, he's with a large national pool construction company. They don't do ongoing pool maintenance but he's doing our pool school for us. He seems to be very knowledgeable and feels strongly about not using CYA.

Pool is about 11k gal, we're in Richmond VA.

From what I'm gathering, CYA is a given despite what I'm being told?

Any help, insight, and constructive thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Your project manager contradicts himself, use tabs but don’t add CyA. Tabs add CyA. Starting with tabs for a couple of weeks won’t hurt since the fill water has no CyA. But I would be monitoring it with one of the test kits from here Test Kits Compared.

If your SWG has ORP control then a low CyA is recommended. I wouldn’t use ORP control in pink fit. The pool training courses tend teach techs to run low CyA but all SWG manufacturers recommend 50 to 70ppm. I would call him an idiot, just not seeing the big picture and your probably wasting you time asking him why.

Without CyA a pool can loose up to 4ppm FC a day to UV degradation alone. With CyA that’s 3-4ppm that your SWG doesn’t have to make, hence the extended life. Plus as an added benefit CyA acts as a buffer to soften the harshness of the active form of FC. And in terms of toxicity CyA is about the same as the salt.

Always treat CyA and FC together as a ratio. Newdudes table above above taken from the FC/CYA Levels. I have always run my pools at 10% of my CyA. ie. 70ppm CyA and 7ppm FC. At 70ppm CyA I’m probably being a bit conservative but I’m not in a really hot desert environment where 80ppm really helps.

 

[crosby1612]

Just want to thank everyone for responding and providing more in depth information.

This is my SWCG, what do I choose in the drop down menu in my profile?

 

[kul]

Is this a mineral cartridge? Or a salt water cell? Sorry I’m confused because I see it says mineral?

 

[Newdude]

Is this a mineral cartridge? Or a salt water cell?

Both. It has 2 doohickies. One doohickie is the swg cell and the other is the mineral cartridge which adds copper. It is highly advised to never add copper to the pool.

This is my SWCG, what do I choose in the drop down menu in my profile?

JANDY Aquapure 1400. They are sisters.

 

[proavia]

Is this a mineral cartridge? Or a salt water cell? Sorry I’m confused because I see it says mineral?

It's a salt cell with a mineral cartridge.

It is highly suggested that the OP remove the mineral cartridge as it adds metals to the pool water that will eventually cause staining.

 

[kul]

It's a salt cell with a mineral cartridge.

Ohh thank you. I hadn’t seen this before.

 

[revitup]

Brand new pool was plastered and filled about 2 weeks ago. We've been brushing, adjusting pH, alkalinity, and chlorine levels. The salt is being added in 2 more weeks. Currently CYA levels are fairly low, we were told by the project manager to just use the chlorine tabs with the stabilizer for now.

The PM was at the house today and I asked about CYA once the salt is added and the salt cell starts doing it thing.

He said there's no need to add CYA to a salt pool since it's constantly producing chlorine and the levels will remain fairly stable.

I posted this to Reddit and got a pretty violent reaction from folks there. The guys an idiot; fire him; find another pool guy; etc etc.

Some of the points were valid, for instance the salt cell will have to work overtime to keep up with the chlorine demand leading to early failure and replacement. And CYA is cheaper than a salt cell.

I'm a total noob with this so I'm just trying to understand what to do and how best to go about it.

He is our project manager, he's with a large national pool construction company. They don't do ongoing pool maintenance but he's doing our pool school for us. He seems to be very knowledgeable and feels strongly about not using CYA.

Pool is about 11k gal, we're in Richmond VA.

From what I'm gathering, CYA is a given despite what I'm being told?

Any help, insight, and constructive thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Thank you

I may be able confirm that I am one of the folks that answered your post on Reddit and I may or may not have expressed an opinion that your project manager is a less than well informed individual. As a result I have been banned from that Reddit sub. I am heartbroken but I hope that comparing the help and information you get here vs there has helped you decide which is the pool care info source you should depend on.

 

[RHanna]

Don't feel bad, I think I disagreed with my pool builder on everything pertaining to equipment and chemicals. When he bought 4 bags of salt for my salt water pool and poured a gallon of chlorine in the pool and told me I was good for the next week I realized I was wise for not trusting his advice from the beginning.

If they owe you any more chemicals I'd ask them to drop them off and you can take it from there.

Also, this isn't just pool builders but also nearly every pool company that will test your water for free. They like to push their products like "Alkalinity Up", you mean baking soda? The same thing I can buy at walmart for 1/3 of the price.

 

[crosby1612]

Thank you to everyone who helped me understand why I need CYA by answering my post yesterday.

Another question... The salt isn't being added to the pool for another 2 weeks. Is it best to wait until then to start adding and adjusting the CYA or should I start now? Does it matter either way?
.
Thanks again

 

[Newdude]

The 2 are entirely independent of each other and can even be worked on simultaneously.

Always Overnight Chlorine Loss Test before raising the CYA significantly.

 

[proavia]

Once the stabilizer is added, consider it in the pool water and dose FC according to the FC/CYA Levels
Dose FC based on a non-SWG pool as your SWG is not in service yet.

 

[jimbethesda]

The 2 are entirely independent of each other and can even be worked on simultaneously.

Always Overnight Chlorine Loss Test before raising the CYA significantly.

Except he’s using tabs (and therefore adding CYA every day now), shouldn’t he wait until he stops using them to test and adjust as necessary?

 

[RHanna]

Thank you to everyone who helped me understand why I need CYA by answering my post yesterday.

Another question... The salt isn't being added to the pool for another 2 weeks. Is it best to wait until then to start adding and adjusting the CYA or should I start now? Does it matter either way?
.
Thanks again

I would want something in the pool. Maybe not all the way to swg levels but something.

When adding salt, don’t run your swg for 24 hours. Check with the manual