Yes, I am also interested in this. I thought CH could only be removed by RO or a water softener(and it is my understanding that if it is not using resin/salt they are not very effective)
Researching pros and cons of both Liquid Chlorine vs Cal-hypo (no cya) sanitation
- Thread starter Drd
- Start date
Yes, I am also interested in this. I thought CH could only be removed by RO or a water softener(and it is my understanding that if it is not using resin/salt they are not very effective)
Re: Why do you never recommend Cal-Hypo?
You are failing to realize that all forms of chlorine add salt to the pool. And even after years and years and years of use we have seen that the salt level will generally not rise above maybe 1500 PPM which is still half that which is required for an swg pool.
Salt is not a problem.
And you are not going to "out chemistry" chem geek.
You are failing to realize that all forms of chlorine add salt to the pool. And even after years and years and years of use we have seen that the salt level will generally not rise above maybe 1500 PPM which is still half that which is required for an swg pool.
Salt is not a problem.
And you are not going to "out chemistry" chem geek.
Ok, I can understand your issues handling chlorine, whether it be a liquid (bleach) or a solid (trichlor), but honestly, your argument against using SWG and CYA is misguided. Most of the folks who have already replied are experts with many years of using proven methods in the field.
I would recommend that you read through some of the articles in Pool School on this website and build yourself a solid foundation in pool chemistry. Only then will you understand the folly of some of the things you propose to do. If not, I'm afraid the only winner in your scenario will be the pool company selling you the calhypo and other chemicals you will not necessarily need.
I would recommend that you read through some of the articles in Pool School on this website and build yourself a solid foundation in pool chemistry. Only then will you understand the folly of some of the things you propose to do. If not, I'm afraid the only winner in your scenario will be the pool company selling you the calhypo and other chemicals you will not necessarily need.
I'm glad I could help. Personally, I do not care if transporting (or paying someone to transport it for you) and storing (even if in an underground tank with auto-feed pump) is right for you, as I trust you to make those decisions for yourself. I just see too much intelligence in your posting to not imagine you being able to logically evaluate, consider, and devise a solution that satisfies your completely rational self-defense mechanisms. It is merely my hopes that this thread gives you scientific AND anecdotal evidence that SHOULD you decide to use teeny tiny amounts of CYA, say 30 tiny parts per MILLION and just a touch of FC say 2-6 parts per MILLION that you would see those are in NO RATIONAL WAY comparable to someone pouring 1/2 a cup of 8.25% bleach (4oz) in a HE washer of potentially 15-23 gallons (1920 - 2944 oz) which roughly is 2079ppm - 1357ppm. To achieve these levels in a 10,000 gallon swimming pool would require 231 GALLONS of 8.25% bleach into the pool at once. Hopefully this comparison will eliminate comparisons between TFP and washing machine "bleach loads." Remember - we generally use as little bleach as we can, because, you know, buying bleach isn't as fun as buying vacations, retirement, investments, birthday presents, pie, donating, or splurging for Rainer cherries during their short season which is right now, so go buy some and enjoy one of nature's most blissful bites.
We do not want you to have to drain/refill/RO either. We really don't. If you do elect to go TFP, we will be happy to double check your calculations, make sure you hit your CYA targets, ensure you aren't adding any except when you lose some due to splash out, overflow, and filter cleaning, and only replace what you lost. We'll keep CYA as low as we can for your sun exposure and personal preference. If you don't add it, it will not increase.
Salt is constantly carried out by bathers, splashed out, and lost during filter cleaning. Since you'll be starting out with roughly zero salt, if we assumed you have a 10,000 gallon pool, and your pump added 2ppm FC per day, 30oz of 8.25%, then your yearly total salt add would be 1,195 parts per million, so you'd be looking at years before the taste of salt even began to be picked up and even if you had the most magical pool ever that never ever lost any salt, it would still be 5 years before you started approaching the 6,000 mark where corrosion expedites, but again, you do lose salt through use and cleaning. Not that removing salt is hard, partial drain and fill even with non-RO city water because you didn't use cal-hypo you'd be okay to accept a little hardness if you didn't want to spring for a water delivery truck or another RO. Too much salt is a very solvable problem - IF IF IF IF you ever had it.
Good call. I type so much, any unfortunate thread I enter seems destined for the deep end. One day I'll get a PM from a mod letting me know my posts are now limited to 144 characters or less, but that
is exempt.Laslty, Joyful, that really was an epic post. Everybody else that was honestly trying to help OP too made some great points. Everyone speculating as to the OP's secret salesman life, could be, but those kind of posts might run off OPs that are merely misguided from bad advice and misunderstandings. Pool store had me thinking the pucks had to be always topped off or no amount of liquid shock could keep it clear....so yeah. We all found this site somehow...and more often than not, it isn't pretty. Hopefully this OP is genuine in his/her desire to find the best solution, accept it, and put it into motion. I'm pretty proud that in a couple pages, TFP made a very strong case and I feel like if OP still doesn't agree, we'll see them again when non-TFP goes poorly, so yeah. I wish them the best no matter what, but if there was a better system, we'd all happily adopt it, but Cal-Hypo as primary, CYA at zero, and trace FC certainly isn't it unless OP is willing to prove it despite current scientific findings suggesting against it, and anecdotal data outright proving it wrong.
Thank you for your understanding on the length of this post. Be well all. Don't forget to make time to swim in your TFPs! Mine was wonderful today!
Oh yeah, that's a great point for OP - the SWG has roughly stable salt levels, with only very minor adds due to occasional bleach adds due to extraordinary conditions, and losses due to use. I will have to really consider SWG vs tank+auto-pump vs both next year when we renovate.
So OP - my current options for you to consider/ask about are:
1) SWG with CYA 70-80ppm and FC 5-6ppm
2) bleach tank & auto-pump with CYA 30-60ppm & FC 4-9ppm
I believe that either of the above options could be done in a manner that didn't result in your safety being compromised, either in the pool or in your peace of mind. For example, you could have a service fill the tank so you never had to be near the un-diluted bleach. You could have a pool boy/girl replace the SWG cell when it goes. If you can do your research and accept the safety of those ranges, then we can help with a solution. If you've decided that those ranges are unacceptable, I wish you well, but I'm out.
So OP - my current options for you to consider/ask about are:
1) SWG with CYA 70-80ppm and FC 5-6ppm
2) bleach tank & auto-pump with CYA 30-60ppm & FC 4-9ppm
I believe that either of the above options could be done in a manner that didn't result in your safety being compromised, either in the pool or in your peace of mind. For example, you could have a service fill the tank so you never had to be near the un-diluted bleach. You could have a pool boy/girl replace the SWG cell when it goes. If you can do your research and accept the safety of those ranges, then we can help with a solution. If you've decided that those ranges are unacceptable, I wish you well, but I'm out.
Re: Why do you never recommend Cal-Hypo?
Awesome capstone jblizzle!
To keep this thread clean, anyone wishing to discuss what Drd said and discuss his/her situation, this thread is actively doing that and you are welcome to join in there.
Awesome capstone jblizzle!
To keep this thread clean, anyone wishing to discuss what Drd said and discuss his/her situation, this thread is actively doing that and you are welcome to join in there.
Good call. I type so much, any unfortunate thread I enter seems destined for the deep end. One day I'll get a PM from a mod letting me know my posts are now limited to 144 characters or less, but that
That will not happen! I am VERY thankful for you and all you do for TFP ! Keep on typing and sharing your awesome insight and caring! If it ends up in the deep end so be it. That has to do with the subject not the fact that you cared enough to take your time to reply in a caring way!Matt (joyfulnoise), Once again I THANK YOU for everything you do here at TFP!
Thanks to everyone that has contributed to this thread!
Kim
Not true. It will be rare for the typical Bleach treated pool here to reach salt levels equal too, or greater than those using SWG and they don't need draining for "high" salt levels. Because of Bleach use, and my well water, mine is actually one of those rare pools, but my CH level will force action before it actually gets there.