Replacing two single speed pumps with variable speed pumps + maybe new electronics?

[InvaderZim]

Merged several threads into one. TFP Mod.
I came here to ask almost exactly the same question as in a previous thread, but don't want to hijack that thread. So here goes...

I have a 26,000 gallon SW pool/spa with two Jandy Stealth pumps, one for the pool filtering/spa and one for the water features (waterfall, slide) that are 14 years old. Pump motors have each been replaced at least once, quite a long time ago. When the filter pump died, I had it replaced with a two-speed motor but the low speed is useless as it really doesn't move much water and the pump basket fills with air after a few minutes.

Anyway, my city is offering $300 rebates for variable-speed pumps so it's time. I have an all-Jandy system so I suppose I should stay with Jandy pumps and there are like 40 models that qualify.

While I wouldn't mind saving some power, I'd also like it to be quieter (hopefully quieter than "stealth"). They also should have a fairly large pump basket as we have leaves in the fall that get past the skimmers.

But what I'm most concerned about is the equipment. The panel inside says:

8156
RS8 COMBO
FIRMWARE MMM
ONE TOUCH
SPALINK

The other post said I need firmware O for variable-speed pumps. I already upgraded the firmware once for the two-speed pump, and I remember that not being cheap (I think it was just a chip). I'd like to switch from the ONE TOUCH controller to something I can also control and program from my iPhone. While I hope Jandy/Zodiac would be there by now, I'm willing to entertain switching to something else if it would be compatible.

I also have a heater, 4x Jandy 120V color-changing lights; two have failed and and I'd like to replace all of these with LED lights -- maybe 12V for safety but one of the lights is, I believe, at the end of a 100ft cord and that might be too long. But that's a question for another day. There is also a Polaris pump, but I never turn it on because I now use a Dolphin Robot and will never look back.

Regarding the pumps, there's a list of vendors on the city website that I have to use -- but so far, I've called 3 and none have called me back. When they do, what would be the best course? Get the two Jandy pumps and operate them from their built-in control panel (assuming they have one) while I figure out how to update the control panel, or just bite the bullet and do it all at once? My assumption is that any new control panel can run the other stuff. Or I guess I could upgrade only the "chip" and add on something that will let me use my iPhone to program the system?

I did have a stuck pool pump relay last year that I managed to replace myself -- but this kind of makes me think the entire control box is aging and could use a swap instead of just a chip replacement. The chlorine generator is in a separate box and is working fine.

Advice? Get variable speed pumps, upgrade only the firmware or "chip", or upgrade the entire control package? Sorry for sounding so scattered... it's late.

 

[cowboycasey]

If you are getting air into your pump on low it depends on how much air.. I get a little 1 inch round bubble in the top of mine.. I also had a 2 speed pump and ran it on low 90% of the time..

I run my VS at 800 for 10 hours a day and 1800 for 2 hours for SWG a day right now... AT 1900 the air bubble goes away and after 4 hours or so it comes back.. If there is a major air bubble or the water drops an inch you have an air leak, usually in the lid.. At high speeds the lid gets sucked down and at low speeds it does not..

VS pumps are very much worth it.. If your pump or pumps are working just fine you can just change out the motor to a V green VS.. I do not think Jandy will control them.. IN that case you would need to change to a Jandy VS pump.. I am surprised you have stayed with Jandy as most leave within a few years.. They do not do DIY and are painful to upgrade as you have gone through, not sure why you would continue to go through that...

With that said it is up to you... You can have someone else do everything, someone else do some and you do some or all DIY.. What would you like to do?

I always do DIY so I will never look at Jandy.. I went with Pentair knowing DIY has only 30 day warranty but there equipment is lasting years... If you change brands you will also need new automation.. Just not sure if you want to go all out and change everything to new or piece it together again...

With that said right now equipment is sky high prices right now and that is if you can even find equipment or a contractor to put it in... so if your setup is working this year it may be better to research and know exactly what you want and how to do it and when prices go down, if they go down then do it..

all up to you

 

[InvaderZim]

Thanks for your reply.

Finding a contractor seems to be the tough part right now. One never called back, and a second put me on the schedule for a visit in a few weeks (with a $150 fee) talk about upgrading the pumps and electronics -- and demanded that they have a credit card on file. About to call more vendors if I can get someone out sooner, as I can always cancel this one. I do the the maintenance myself (to the point of cleaning/replacing the salt cell) so I don't have a regular vendor, but wouldn't mind restarting weekly maintenance/cleaning. I wonder if not having a relationship with a vendor is an impediment.

When running at full speed, the pump pot never has an air bubble unless I don't get the lid on tight enough. But in low speed, the pot drains down to the point where the pool returns are putting out bubbles after a couple of hours. This makes me wonder if maybe the Jandy stealth pump isn't compatible with the two-speed motor as that's all that was replaced. One reason I wanted the low speed was I thought I could use it in freeze protect mode and not annoy my neighbors with the pumps running all night in the winter, starting and stopping as they switch modes (I finally figured out that the pump can keep running during valve switches without harm). Anyway, that won't be a problem much longer.

I don't see a lot of Jandy stuff mentioned in this forum and I know they banned internet sales a few years ago. Very annoying. The inside panel is Jandy as is the controller embedded in the spa; I'd be willing to entertain swapping everything. I need someone capable of bidding all that to come out. I don't mind doing some stuff, but pulling wires for new lights, sizing/replacing the pumps and replacing/programming the control panel is something I'd prefer to leave to others. There are a *lot* of pumps on the list.

I do have another issue now: with all the heavy rain, the GFCI tripped and I can't get the filter pump to start, but I really don't want to replace the pump motor when I'm going to swap it all out anyway. Sigh. I'll post about this separately.

Thanks again for replying and the discussion.

 

[ajw22]

A new board to update your Aqualink to Rev T2 will cost you about $460 on eBay...

Jandy AquaLink RS8 Pool and Spa Upgrade Kit for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Jandy AquaLink RS8 Pool and Spa Upgrade Kit at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[InvaderZim]

I need to replace my two Jandy Stealth pumps with 2.2/95HP motors from 2006 with new Jandy automation-compatible pumps. Looking to save power, and run quieter and also update the automation. One pump runs the filter pump/spa, the second the waterfall and slide.

I was finally able to get one pool company on the city rebate list to send me a bid -- right now, even getting anyone to respond is like pulling teeth.

They bid two EPUMP PRO SERIES VARIABLE SPEED PUMP 2.2HP 115/230VAC JANDY W/ 2 AUX RELAYS for about $1600/each along with a $1300 IQ20 upgrade for my Jandy RS8 version NNN panel. Looking at the Jandy website, the also list VS FLO PR and VS PLUSHP variable speed pumps. Should I consider one of those -- they say "new" next to them, or a waterfall or water feature pump instead of VS for the waterfall and slide? Also, there are 2.2 and 2.8HP models of the EPUMP -- should I ask about the 2.8HP models, since they're variable speed and might be able to run slower? Or does the HP rating not relate to pump efficiency.

I'll ask about the automation upgrade in that forum as it looks like there's an IQ30 now on Jandy's website.

The pool company tells me that they have the pumps but the automation upgrade is in short supply, so I'm thinking maybe get the pumps replaced first, unless that's a bad idea.

To make matters worse, I also just discovered a crack in the side of my Jandy DEV60 DE filter that's slowly leaking water, probably from the big Texas freeze in February. It explains why my pad has been wet. I patched that up with metal waterproof tape but not sure how long that's going to hold -- is there a better solution like that informercial vinyl spray? The crack is in the ridged section so I'm not sure anything else will stay on. Or can I replace just the bottom part of the filter?

I see folks are switching from DE filters back to cartridge filters, which is what I originally had until about 2012. Is that a thing now -- are they better than DE filters? I like being able to backwash but we had trees around the pool removed (died during the freeze) so there will be a lot less stuff falling into it from now on.

Thanks as usual for any advice.

 

[InvaderZim]

A new board to update your Aqualink to Rev T2 will cost you about $460 on eBay...

Jandy AquaLink RS8 Pool and Spa Upgrade Kit for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Jandy AquaLink RS8 Pool and Spa Upgrade Kit at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Thanks! I think we've talked ourselves into updating to IQ20 so we can turn the spa on remotely, like when we're on our way home from a hike. I finally got a bid (posted in a new thread).

 

[InvaderZim]

I finally got someone to bid on updating to variable-speed pumps (I posted in the pumps forum) and since I have an RS8 with a firmware version of "NNN".

The bid includes updating the RS8 using something called an IQ20 RS I-AQUALINK UPGRADE KIT for just under $1300. The service company tells me they have the pumps but don't know how soon they can get the upgrade kit because of shortages.

I now see the Jandy website lists an iAquaLink 3.0 (is that an IQ30?). Is that available and is that a better choice, maybe worth waiting for? I updated once before to NNN years ago, and that was like $600 and I think O was already out back then, which was annoying.

 

[InvaderZim]

My DE filter (Jandy DEV60) developed a small crack in the base. presumably a consequence of the Texas deep freeze -- see photo.

I put some metallic waterproof tape over it and that slowed the flow, but it's still seeping out -- maybe a few gallons a day right now.

It's on the ribbed portion, so it might be tough to seal from the outside. It might be better to patch it from the inside -- is that a good idea?

I've never disassembled it before -- my AWOL pool guy always took care of the breakdown/cleaning, but I'm sure I can find a YouTube video.

The question: is it even worthwhile or do I bite the bullet and have it replaced? Is there some kind of spray-on temporary sealer I can use, like they show in informercials? I'd be worried about tape inside coming loose and plugging something. Since I'm updating the electronics and pumps, if I could figure out a fix that would hold for a month or two, that would be really helpful.

 

[JamesW]

It is super dangerous.

You need to turn the pump off and open the pressure relief.

The filter can explode and seriously injure or kill someone.

Do not continue to use the filter!

Replace the filter.

 

[InvaderZim]

Yikes! Thanks! I'll get it replaced asap.

 

[HermanTX]

Keep us updated on what you do. I just installed the Pentair VSF pump and hooked it to my old (2012 time line) AquaLink box. I only use the PDA and I cannot find my version using that. I removed the wall unit at that time and only use the wireless PDA to control the pool. I was successful in programing the new VSF pump to be controlled by my PDA.

I have read that the upgrade kit you mentioned is good but have not checked into any availability.

 

[MSchutzer]

That upgrade kit IQ20-RS includes a version 2.0 iAquaLink radio transceiver and a RS8-PS main board (version T.2) as a kit. The new iAqualink 3.0 is a newer radio transceiver with all the same functionality of the 2.0 version but the website claims that the 3.0 version has better support for mesh WiFi routers as version 2.0 had some issues connecting to them. For most folks the 2.0 iAquaLink is fine. In either case the main board is version T.2, the latest version they are producing.

I’m not sure if the iAquaLink 3.0 is available as a bundled upgrade with the RS8-PS board. The IQ20-RS upgrade is about the price of the RS8-PS or the iAquaLink 2.0 alone so it is more cost effective way to go. Once you have the upgrade you will never use your PDA or other interface boxes again as you can do everything with your phone, tablet, or computer.

I’m not even sure if the iAqualink 3.0 is even available separately yet as it is brand new, but the only new feature better support for WiFi mesh networks.

Mark-

 

[PoolGate]

The IQ20-RS changes your system from being PDA based to being web-based. You will no longer use your PDA to program Aqualink. And that functionality will disappear from the PDA menu options. This is a good thing. Like said above, you will never use your PDA again and it you want to recoup some of your money, the going rate for PDAs are around $500 or so. If you include your PDA antenna you could probably get $700 for it all. The IQ20-RS upgrade consists of a WiFi antenna and a new daughter processor board. Once installed, Jandy will be able to control your system remotely if you call for help. Be advised, if you lose Internet access, you will not be able to change any programming on your local system including scheduling. Scheduling will still run, however. And you will only be able to turn things on/off if you have a wired panel (like a OneTouch) or the PDA as a backup.

Just make 100% sure you are, in fact, getting the IQ20-RS and NOT the IQ20-a. The IQ20-a is a wholly useless upgrade. Specifically ask your installer this question.

 

[mknauss]

I have nothing on the Jandy pumps. But the filter, many are going to the cartridge filters as they use less water, no solid DE to deal with, etc. Properly sized they can be cleaned once a year. The use of skimmer basket nets also reduces the solids load sent to the filter.

 

[InvaderZim]

Pool company tells me there is a 6 month backlog on the Jandy DEV60 DE filter, and convinced me to switch to a sand filter that they can install in about two weeks:

JS SERIES SAND FILTER 30" SIDE MOUNT
MULTIPORT VALVE W/ UNIONS JANDY JS/ DEV
PEA GRAVEL 50# SAND FILTER X4
FILTER MEDIA SAND 50# X8

They tell me I can backwash it like a DE filter but it only needs breakdown/servicing every 10 years or so.

In looking at the forums, it seems sand filters are liked. Does it seem like a reasonable option? I went from a cartridge filter to a DE filter maybe 8 years ago and this filter seems far more expensive than the DE filter (that's apparently unobtainable).

 

[InvaderZim]

My new pool company says the Jandy DE filters have a 6 month wait, so they bid a sand/gravel filter they can install in about two weeks. Pricey, but I can backwash and it'll last 10 years without other servicing and I try to do as much of my own maintenance as possible. Since I was told in another thread that the cracked filter is an explosion hazard, I don't have a lot of choice. :-(

 

[mknauss]

If your water is cheap and you do not mind adding salt, CYA, etc due to backwashing, a sand filter is fine. It will not filter as well as the other two, but still ok.

 

[PoolGate]

I would go cartridge and call it a day. DE/Sand filters, IMO, are obsolete relics of the past.

 

[InvaderZim]

Thanks, all, for your very helpful replies. We do use mesh WiFi-- there is an Orbi satellite bout 15 feet above the pool equipment that serves that side of the house, so I was thinking WiFi range wouldn't be a problem. I'll do some searching about whether this might be a problem, but it seems like worst case, I could attach a cheap WiFi router to one of the ethernet ports on the Orbi with some distance just to serve the IQ-20 if there's a problem. The Orbis (base+2 satellites) have made a huge difference in our house.

The bid does specifically say IQ20 RS I-AQUALINK UPGRADE KIT and I'll confirm that.

We don't have the PDA -- have talked about that upgrade at various times the years, but phone/web integration always seemed on the horizon, we've also been talking variable speed pumps at the same time and those would have entailed an intermediate upgrade at the time (we're at NNN). Glad we waited. We currently use the OneTouch panel inside for programming and have a Spalink to turn things on and off from outside. Sounds like if the OneTouch will keep working, there's no reason to remove it from the wall, as it'll be a backup.

This all sounds ideal and exactly what I'm looking for. I'm sold. Just hope they can get the parts.

 

[InvaderZim]

I would go cartridge and call it a day. DE/Sand filters, IMO, are obsolete relics of the past.

I asked about a cartridge filter -- that's what we originally had, and maybe 10 years ago, swapped it for a DE filter but they really recommended the sand filter. I remember having to have the cartridge filter broken down twice a year and hosed out -- same with the DE filter, but the cartridge filter seemed simpler (I just watched and never attempted it myself).

Water is not cheap at the higher tiers of summer usage since we have to keep the landscape alive, but what I normally do is keep the automatic water-leveling drain closed, and when we get a storm that drops a few inches of rain, take advantage of that to backwash. I know I'm spilling salt, free chlorine, and (right now) DE into the grass (I rotate the hose) but it hasn't harmed anything and I figure it's not a total waste.

We also had a couple of giant 60 foot Elms that did not survive the freeze and are now gone -- the pool used to barely get above 84 degrees in the August and is now at 88 in June. These elm shaded the pool over the pool and made a mess for a month in spring and then what seemed like 3 months in the fall -- but no more. The back of the pool is shaded with live oaks, but those only make a mess once a year. The elms were just terrible. So hopefully I won't have to backwash nearly as much as in the past. I know it sounds like rationalization, but what the heck.