Replacing Propane Heater

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JoyfulNoise said:
That’s a 175 sq ft cartridge filter … I wouldn’t consider any filter on my pool less than 320sf and, when I ditch my QuadDE and convert to a cartridge it wil be a Pentair CCP 520sf cartridge filter.

Bigger is always better when it comes to filters.
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I guess our pools are cleaner than others are elsewhere. Having it entirely screened in with no foliage inside and mosquitos kept outside keeps skimming and dirt collection down. But hey, YMMV.
 
ajw22 said:
New MasterTemp heater? What did the old MasterTemp heater do?

If your heater bypass is installed and set following the Pentair Installation instructions you will find that the water flow is not shut off when the heater is in bypass. Water will still flow through for cool down after the bypass opens.

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The old 2010 Sta-Rite LP heater (described in this thread) did not do an officlal cooldown that I am aware of. By bypass closed, I meant 90% closed. I assumed that was obvious. Sorry for misunderstanding.
 
CFlaPool said:
The old 2010 Sta-Rite LP heater (described in this thread) did not do an officlal cooldown that I am aware of.
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You have a 6 button MasterTemp heater?

The new connected MasterTemp and Sta-rite heaters implemented a bypass valve control on the PCB so that the heater can control a automated bypass valve and not need automation. Unfortunately the heater firmware did not work properly. There is supposed to be new heater PCB with Version 2 firmware that lets the heater control the bypass valve.

Every old heater did a cool down. It was simply water continuing to flow through the heater.

The only reason the "offical cooldown" is now discussed is due to the implementation of the automated bypass valves.

And Pentair used to say to keep the pump running for 5 minutes after heater shutoff for cool down. Then lately they have said their heaters do not require a cool down.

CFlaPool said:
By bypass closed, I meant 90% closed. I assumed that was obvious. Sorry for misunderstanding.
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Closing a bypass means the water is no longer going through the bypass which would route the water to the heater.

Opening a bypass diverts the water from the heater and allows it to flow through the bypass.

10% water flowing through the heater is sufficient for any cool down.
 
I do believe even the “old” master temp (my 2013 MasterTemp qualifies as “old”) had a cool down built into the controls in the sense that the blower runs for a few minutes after the call for heat ends and the heater will not fire up again for a few minutes after the end of a heating cycle to let everything come down. Mine is plumbed without a plumbing bypass and so water is always flowing into the heater. Not the most efficient setup but it ensures that the heater never sits stagnant.
 
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ajw22 said:
You have a 6 button MasterTemp heater?

The new connected MasterTemp and Sta-rite heaters implemented a bypass valve control on the PCB so that the heater can control a automated bypass valve and not need automation. Unfortunately the heater firmware did not work properly. There is supposed to be new heater PCB with Version 2 firmware that lets the heater control the bypass valve.

Every old heater did a cool down. It was simply water continuing to flow through the heater.

The only reason the "offical cooldown" is now discussed is due to the implementation of the automated bypass valves.

And Pentair used to say to keep the pump running for 5 minutes after heater shutoff for cool down. Then lately they have said their heaters do not require a cool down.



Closing a bypass means the water is no longer going through the bypass which would route the water to the heater.

Opening a bypass diverts the water from the heater and allows it to flow through the bypass.

10% water flowing through the heater is sufficient for any cool down.
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  • Yes, the new heater is a 400K MasterTemp, with 6 buttons and a two-line display. The display says COOLDOWN after heater is turned off. The old Sta-Rite said no such thing.
  • Currently, the bypass Intellivalve is connected to the BYP-VLV port on the heater's PCB. The bypass intellivalve stays open during the cooldown period, and then moves to divert 90% of the flow around the heater.
  • As I stated earlier on this thread, the installer stated, and you confirmed above, that in this setup, the heater cannot be controlled from the ET, because the ET will shut down power to heater before the intellivalve closes (to 90%). So now, the ET SPA mode only controls the intake/return valves, and not the heater. Do you still agree?
  • Hooking up the bypass valve to the ET board is necessary to manage the heater and bypass from the EasyTouch. Still correct?
I am sorry if I am making this difficult.
 
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CFlaPool said:
  • As I stated earlier on this thread, the installer stated, and you confirmed above, that in this setup, the heater cannot be controlled from the ET, because the ET will shut down power to heater before the intellivalve closes (to 90%). So now, the ET SPA mode only controls the intake/return valves, and not the heater. Do you still agree?
  • Hooking up the bypass valve to the ET board is necessary to manage the heater and bypass from the EasyTouch. Still correct?
I am sorry if I am making this difficult.
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Pentair made this confusing, not you.

All correct with an EasyTouch.

It becomes confusing since the same heater behavior is different when connected to an IntelliCenter via RS-485. With that setup the RS-485 commands tell the heater to operate and the heater is always powered so the BYP-VLV connected actuator can open after the heater is commanded off.

Pentair added features to the new MasterTemp, without changing the P/N, and those features only work properly with the IntelliCenter, which is all they currently support. Pentair does not bother explaining what works and what does not work with, in their view, the obsolete EasyTouch and IntelliTouch products.

It takes dialogue to understand what configuration someone has and what the right answer is.
 
ajw22 said:
Pentair made this confusing, not you.

All correct with an EasyTouch.

It becomes confusing since the same heater behavior is different when connected to an IntelliCenter via RS-485. With that setup the RS-485 commands tell the heater to operate and the heater is always powered so the BYP-VLV connected actuator can open after the heater is commanded off.

Pentair added features to the new MasterTemp, without changing the P/N, and those features only work properly with the IntelliCenter, which is all they currently support. Pentair does not bother explaining what works and what does not work with, in their view, the obsolete EasyTouch and IntelliTouch products.

It takes dialogue to understand what configuration someone has and what the right answer is.
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As I see it, given my current usage of VLV A and B on my ET8 board, my options are:
  1. Free up VLV A or B by removing an actuator and putting the IntelliValve on that port. (Cheapest, and just means I cannot control skimmer valve when running the cleaner.)
  2. Upgrade EasyTouch8 to Intellicenter, which could cost (after rebate) maybe around $1500. And then add the expansion board to the IC. ($$$$)
  3. Leave as-is, and operate heater only from the heater panel. (worst option). Given we have just entered Summer heat season here, the spa heater won't get much use for next 5 months. So this would work for now. I do know that I will be exercising the heater weekly or bi-weekly to keep it fresh.
 
If you upgraded to the IntelliCenter the BYB-VLV connection using RS-485 heater control may work if your heater PCB has the updated firmware. You may not need the valve expansion board.

If it did not work make a warranty claim with Pentair and have them send you the updated heater PCB.
 
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ajw22 said:
If you upgraded to the IntelliCenter the BYB-VLV connection using RS-485 heater control may work if your heater PCB has the updated firmware. You may not need the valve expansion board.

If it did not work make a warranty claim with Pentair and have them send you the updated heater PCB.
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Just a note: Now I see where I got confused thinking the expansion card would work. It works on IntelliTouch and I did not know the difference between that and EasyTouch, thinking they were alike. https://www.pentair.com/content/dam..._Module_Installation_Instructions_English.pdf
 
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ajw22 said:
IntelliTouch is more like the Intellicenter then like the EasyTouch.
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Just a note to say the heater replacement is complete. I freed up a valve actuator on the board by removing the one on the skimmer/main-cleaner side, and the intellivalve is now on the board. Everything works from ScreenLogic to control heater and the bypass. With the lower head loss due to bypass, I can run the cleaner at 2000rpm with the skimmer still open 25%. This adventure has a happy conclusion, thanks to all here who helped.

Now I have an extra Jandy2444 actuator with a defective switch. It works fine for the ET but not from the onboard switch. Is there a forum here for selling/ or giving away spare pool parts? I was fortunate to find @oddeven21 on here who was troubleshooting a bad heater PCB and sent him my old one.
 
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