Replacing Hayward Super II 1HP 1.5" with Pentair Variable Speed Pump 2" (in Thailand)

[masupilami]

Hi there,

I own a house with 8.000 gallon infinity pool on a small island in Thailand, and the lack of skilled pool experts is quite high - additional to the fact that I don't speak thai. In general I even repair my JEEP myself, or do general maintenance work on the house, so I would describe myself as quite handy.

I'm currently trying to figure out how to upgrade my 6 year old pool pump and setup, which was installed by the construction company building the house back then.

My main concern was always noise, since the pump is sitting in my basement directly underneath my living room and it's all on concrete, with concrete posts and beams - second reason is electricity cost. VSF pumps seem to be way more cost efficient and with 24/7 run time, my infinity would never dry up. At the moment I run 7 hours.

I was able to reduce the noise issue quite a lot by placing the pump on 2" thick rubber-corc-blocks and especial by replacing the pvc pipe with rubber hoses on both sides, so the vibration is much less transferred to the surroundings and into the concrete.. which ends up in my living room. But I can still hear the buzzing while it runs. I would also preffer replacing those rubber hoses with proper hoses actually made for that use case.. maybe order them from amazon (as I do with my JEEP parts)

I've found the Pentair variable speed pumps and initially wanted to go with a super flow.. but they are quite hard to find here, but I found a dealer with intelliflo or whisperflo. I've looked more into it and it seems those have 2" connection, to run at less RPM and be even more quiet. While currently having 1.5" plumbing on my hayward pump, all other piping is 2". Including the hayward salt water cell and the hayward sand filter. My pool has 3 water inlets on the bottom (two 2" pipes, one goes to the inlet and one splits to two other inlets) and that's it. Overflow runs into a huge concrete water tank in my basement, to cool the water temp down, from which the pump pulls the water in. Pool is 6.93m x 2.87m x 1.5m and the bottom of my pool is about 3 meters above where the pump sits in my basement.

While I would have to redo some of the PVC piping connecting the pump, it seems to be worth it to run a 2" VSF pump?

I've also a 1.5" flowback/check valve, so my pool doesn't run into my basement when the pump stops.. which is sometimes quite noisy, too with that spring/ball construction inside.. so I could replace that with a proper 2" solution too. Stupid question.. does is matter if they installed vertical or horizontal?

I'm open to any feedback, questions, help, recommendations or anything to get a better picture what to do...

Thanks,
Michael

 

[ajw22]

What model number IntelliFlo pumps can you get?

The IntelliFlo VS pumps are usually around 3HP while Whisperflo VS pumps are 1.65 HP. You don’t need the additional HP but a larger VS pump will be quieter running at a lower RPM for the same flow rate.

Get the higher HP IntelliFlo pump and run it at a low RPM that will be quiet for you.

2” pipe is not a problem.

On your check valve question, what specific model check valves are you discussing?

 

[Jimrahbe]

123,

I have two rent house pools that have 1.5" plumbing and have the 3 HP IntelliFlo pumps. There is no need to upgrade the pipe to 2" other than right at the pump itself.

The IntelliFlo is so quiet at low RPMs that you might have to touch the pump just to make sure it is running..

I run mine 24/7, mostly at 1200 RPM, and that costs me less than $20 USD per month.

I too recommend the 3 PH IntelliFlo..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[masupilami]

at firsth thanks a lot for responding

What model number IntelliFlo pumps can you get?

I've found only two shops here in Thailand selling Pentair pumps it seems..

that one is 3HP, but the shop just responded out of stock:

ปั๊ม Pentair Intelliflo II - Whisperflo VSF (Variable Speed and Flow) - winwinpoolshop

✅ Intellflo SPEED ✅ Flowrate: 39 m3/h ✅ Power Output: 3 (HP) / (2.20 KW.) ✅ Volte : 220-240V./ 1 Phase ✅ Weight(kg.): 23.0 KG. ✅ Warranty: 3 Years.

www.winwinpoolshop.com

That one seems 4HP, but no feedback from dealer yet.

https://www.mrpool.co.th/Pump_Und_Inteliflo_Und_VFitoplanding/60547126a2230f0013b79dbd/605463fa1a2d270019e56910/Products_605d852fc736210012df23ea/6054b91d9602be0019bcd9fc

I'm fine paying more for a better/bigger model, since the availability/selection here in Thailand seems verry limited, and shops here often out of stock even it's listed on their website as in stock, since nobody updated their website for 5 years.

On your check valve question, what specific model check valves are you discussing?

It seems all check valves over here in Thailand are no-name made in china and I imagine that ball/spring construction inside its disrupting the flow A LOT. I have the version on the 2nd picture, but added the other one since it explains the inside. It sits right above the outlet of the current pump (see picture below), to prevent water from my pool running back into my basement tank (and overflow), while the pump is off - as it sits 3m below the pool. When I upgrade to 2" with the new pump I need a new one anyways, so I would probably go for the Pentair 2" check valve? https://www.amazon.com/Pentair-263042-Check-Valve-Straight/dp/B0039PXC8K

There is no need to upgrade the pipe to 2" other than right at the pump itself.

All pipes except the ones at the pump is already 2".




I've also read that there should be no 90" angle right at the pump, so my idea would be to probably rebuild the whole blue bottom piece on the left, which is currently 2" 2" 1.5" 2" and make it all 2", with a 2" elbow to connect the pump. then slip a new 2 1/2" rubber hose over that 2" pipe and go from there directly to the pump inlet (isolates vibration) and turn the new pump towards the hose to have only a slight curve, which also gives me way better access to the control display of the new intelliflo. from the pump outlet I would connect another 2 1/2" rubber hose and connect it to the new check valve, which I would install horizontally right before the filter. My current with the current setup always was, that if the rubber hose breaks, the pool would drain into my basement, because the check valve is on the wrong side of it. I was looking at amazon for proper hoses made for pool equipment, but it seems if I get a spring supported industrial rubber hose here in Thailand, and slip it over the 2" pipe (as I did with the current setup, just no springs), is much cheaper and more versatile.

 

[Jimrahbe]

123,

The one you list as 4 HP looks like the stock 3 HP IntelliFlo to me. I suspect it has more to do with how they are measuring HP now rather than it actually being a bigger pump.

Putting the pool equipment in the basement seems like a bad idea to me. No matter how many safety devices you have, there is still a possibility that the pool can flood the house.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[masupilami]

Putting the pool equipment in the basement seems like a bad idea to me. No matter how many safety devices you have, there is still a possibility that the pool can flood the house.

the house is on a hillside and the basement has a drain that goes down the hill.. so worst case I would only loose those 8,000 gallons of water.

so far everybody told me here Pentair is out of stock everywhere

 

[masupilami]

The one you list as 4 HP looks like the stock 3 HP IntelliFlo to me.

I could order that one from amazon for +$860 shipping and customs...

https://www.amazon.com/Pentair-IntelliFlo-Efficient-Variable-Swimming/dp/B08MWQMP8J/

or

https://www.amazon.com/Pentair-IntelliFlo3-Variable-Speed-011075/dp/B0BK5ZZDDX/

 

[masupilami]

I've talked to multiple dealers here in Thailand today, and they all recommend the Emaux EPV, since it's widely available (so are spare parts), 2y warranty, no insane import tax from US and basically the same quality - supposedly.. has even WIFI built in and a nice app.. which is quite cool.

E-Power Variable Speed Pump | Emaux Pool and Spa Equipment

Emaux E-Power Variable Speed Pump maximizes the efficiency of your pool filtration system with the aid of a one-touch controller. The presentable direct speed controller enables pool owners to manage their usage with the press of a single button to schedule their water treatment system with...

emauxgroup.com

there are like zero reviews... and I guess nobody here ever heard of them, since they are not sold in the US.. supposedly in business for 30+ years.

Can anybody take a look at the tech specs pdfs if there is anything off?

price for the 3HP is $1,383 and incl wifi modul $1,500 .. while I probably use that module only once to adjust it, I would definitely go for it.

few installers here told me the 3HP would be oversized.. but I guess the same rule as with pentair applies with any VSF pump.. oversize + low rpm = zero noise .. right?

 

[Jimrahbe]

123,

You can't go too big when buying a VS pool pump. You are really buying a Variable Horsepower pump. You just adjust the speed (horsepower) to meet your needs.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[masupilami]

after checking with 15+ pool equipment dealers all over Thailand, I've finally found one, who had one last Pentair IntelliFlo VSF (011056) in stock.

On the way to me now for $1,888 - which is a crazy good price for an imported pump, considering its sold for $1,700 in the US. List price here is $2,500.

My plan is to attach 2" hose couplings directly into the pump on both sides, and also one into my 2" Hayward filter head. Having hoses instead of rigid pipes has proven to remove a ton of vibration and noise in the underlaying concrete in the past. That way it's also much easier to replace the existing 1.5" PVC pieces between both ends of the pump to the remaining equipment.

Is there any good reason why I definitely shouldn't do that? The hose is certified for 6 bar (87 psi) and burst 17 bar (246 psi) ... my Hayward Sand filter currently shows 10 psi while the 1 HP single speed pump is running at est. 65 GPM. I'll put the new (proper) 2" check valve next to the salt cell, so even if the hose starts leaking, my pool won't drain back into my basement (currently a concern, since the ****** check valve sits on the wrong side). I'm not worried about the flooding, since it would just run down the hill, but refilling 8,000 gallons of water costs a bit ;-)

 

[masupilami]

I've decided to go hard pipe and keep the hose only als plan b - and I'm very glad I did that. Wouldn't even have required to put the pump on cork blocks any more, since there is no vibration... but can't change now due to the pipe length.



The Pentair IntelliFlo is INSANELY quiet - my old pump was like thousand times more nosy and burning electricity like crazy too. My kitchen fridge is louder than that IntelliFlo...


Trying to figure out the best speed setting & schedule now... and wrote the following down.. do those values make sense?

RPM	GPM	PSI	WATT	G per W		h for 8000 gal
450	19	0	120	0.16	noise pump fan	17.54
550	23	0	78	0.29	noise pump fan	14.49
650	10	0	34	0.29	noise pump fan	33.33
700	26	0	37	0.70	noise pump fan	12.82
750	24	0	39	0.62	noise pump fan	13.89
800	21	0	41	0.51	noise pump fan	15.87
850	18	1	41	0.44		18.52
950	10	2	48	0.21		33.33
1100	6	3	67	0.09	SWG ON	55.56
1200	12	4	90	0.13		27.78
1300	16	4	116	0.14		20.83
1400	21	5	149	0.14	bearing squeak	15.87
1500	24	6	184	0.13	bearing squeak	13.89
1600	27	7	225	0.12	bearing squeak	12.35
1700	30	0	273	0.11	bearing squeak	11.11
1800	33	0	323	0.10	bearing squeak	10.10
1900	35	10	378	0.09	bearing squeak	9.52
2000	40	11	441	0.09	bearing squeak	8.33
2200	45	13	590	0.08	bearing squeak	7.41

• does it make sense that 1100 falls kind of in a hole, similar to 650?
• does it make sense that 750 has actually 24 GPM?
• fan noise sounds like the fan is running uneven and creates a low pitched squeaking (will follow up on existing thread on that issue)
• bearing squeak is high pitched and sometimes disappears (will follow up on existing thread on that issue)
• noise from check valve (flap) comes because the flap is only slightly open so the water flow starts squeaking quite loud.
• starting from 1100 the SWG (flow switch) jumps on

Based on that data running 24/7 on 700 rpm would be best, but then the SWG is not on and the infinity edge of the pool is not really pushing floating dirt away, as it's supposed to be... that starts to work properly at around 1100.

Recommendations on schedule?

Thanks,
Michael

 

[ajw22]

Whatever schedule works for your pool.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Michael,

The only schedule that makes sense to me is to run the pump at a speed that turns on the cell.

The whole point of a VS pump is to run as slow as you can, but still accomplish the job. The job is to make the chlorine your pool needs.

I run my IntelliFlo at 1200 RPM 24/7. I love to make a little chlorine all the time and I love to skim constantly. I also like that at that speed it is very quiet.

If you are worried about the turning over the pool water x times a day, don't be. The idea that you have to turnover your pool water is a myth.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[masupilami]

If you are worried about the turning over the pool water x times a day, don't be. The idea that you have to turnover your pool water is a myth.

good to know. was actually worried about that.

It seems the 24 GPM at 750 rpm reported by the pump is totally wrong.. if I run at 1500 the flow is great.. and at 750 the infinity edge is barely a dripping.. and regarding the GPM value the pump shows, it's supposed to be the same GPM.

I guess the watt usage of the pump is more accurate.. GPM is probably way harder to measure (or they probably just calculate) correctly. Based on that, the pump pushes double the amount of water at 1500 than 1200 using double the wattage - which would be great if GPM is accurate. A shame that the GPM value seems unreliable.

Thanks

 

[Jimrahbe]

Michael,

There is almost never a reason to worry about GPM. Who cares? What is the point?

Just crank the RPM to where your pool works the way you want and you are done.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[masupilami]

strange thing.. I've lots of constant air bubbles coming out two of three of my returns in the floor of my pool, when running at 1200rpm... changing to 2000 rpm they are gone.

since the bottom of my pool is about 10 feet above my pump.. a leak on the suction side would definitely start dripping, when the pump is turned off.. or would it? and if it would be a leak, why should it go away at 2000 rpm?

I first thought it's air trapped from the installation of the new pump and pipes.. ran it at 2000 rpm for few hours.. bubbles immediately gone.. switching back to 1200 rpm.. bubbles are back.

I've had leaks due to unproperly closed fittings on the suction side in the past, and it always resulted in dripping water.. not air bubbles.

ideas?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Michael,

If they are small champagne-looking bubbles, then they are most likely from your SWCG.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[masupilami]

I had the pump turned off over night and not a single drip on any of the pipes.

I checked the pump basket with a flash light and it looked like tiny bubbles coming in from the suction side, and/or the pump basket lid.

So I went ahead and cleaned the basked and put silicon grease on the o-ring of the lid and properly closed it. Also I've tighten all unions a last push more. Then I added silicon around all pipe fittings, just to be 1000% sure ...

and guess what? Still bubbles in my pool.. they a quite a bigger than champagne ones.. when they come out they are more like the size of a finger nail .. and I never had them before.

my alternative idea now would be that there is quite a big air bubble trapped somewhere in the system and it just takes a while to get it all out...

since there is no leak anywhere, I shouldn't worry, right? it can't harm anything... but it still drives me crazy

Thanks


UPDATE: there are zero bubbles in my check valve right above the pump. totally missed to check that. that would support my theory that there is somewhere big air trapped, from my installation, that needs to get blown out over the next weeks. that picture is while installation, so yeah there was air in the basket visible.

 

[masupilami]

solved.. when I turn of the salt cell the bubbles are gone. no clue why the cell starts bubbles at 1200rpm but not when I run 2000rpm .. but shouldn't hurt to have bubbles?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Michael,

All SWCG's make bubbles when they make chlorine. The faster the pump runs the more they are dispersed so you don't see them as much.

They will not hurt anything.

Thanks,

Jim R.