Regulations for maximum FC

[MeAndJulio]

I am new to this forum, although I've had a pool for 26 years, and have used calcium hypochloride in the past and followed traditional rules of having a maximum of 4.0 FC. I am switching to liquid chlorine and bleach. TFP has far higher maximums and higher recommended targets than the information on the calcium hypochloride products sold for pool chlorination.
I am concerned about the TFP levels of chlorine because of potential damage to the liner and for safety of swimmers.
So far, I have found these governmental sites that say 4.0 is the recommended limit, which is far lower than TFP's limit or targets (ex CYA=40, target 5-7).

https://www.nj.gov/health/ceohs/documents/phss/cl_residual.pdf

https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/pdf/swimming/resources/disinfection-team-chlorine-ph-factsheet.pdf

I would love for someone to respond with a link to official regulations from a government source or sanitary source that includes data that says the FC can be above 4.0 and is safe to swim.
Thanks!

 

[Leebo]

All honesty, you won't find any that say otherwise.

There is a strong movement however from former TFP users who have moved onto larger projects to alter that currently. You can read some of the science going on behind the scenes here, including the following quote,

It is now understood that the commonly accepted or allowable chlorine levels (1 to 4 ppm) in stabilized pools is too low. Interestingly, at a pH of 7.5 and 25 ppm of CyA, it requires about 11 ppm of chlorine to achieve the same amount of HOCl as having 1 ppm of free chlorine with zero CyA at a pH of 7.5. And even higher levels of chlorine are needed to achieve the same HOCl content when the CyA levels are above 25 ppm. But remember, most authorities agree that 1 ppm of chlorine with zero CyA has more killing power than is needed to kill most bacteria.

 

[IceShadow]

It's only anecdotal, but you will see tons of people here who use the higher chlorine levels and don't have issues. I've been following nearly every thread posted in the last several months and not one had someone complaining about any sort of adverse reaction of swimming up to what TFP considers "SLAM" levels of chlorine (in relation to the CYA in the pool).

 

[JamesW]

From the first reference:

In ANSI 1, the levels should meet the following standards: free chlorine levels should be between 1.0 and 10.0 parts per million (ppm)

So, even using your reference, our recommendations for normal levels don't exceed 10 ppm.

In addition, the reference says "free chlorine". Chlorine that is bound to cyanuric acid is not really "free" even though it tests as free.

Assuming no cyanuric acid, a 4 ppm maximum is reasonable.

Regardless, the government has not really done anything to validate their recommendations, especially when cyanuric acid is being used.

Their information seems to comes from the 1950s. It's old and outdated.

New publications keep using the same old information and recommendations.

It's seriously time for the government to update their policies based on current science.

 

[kimkats]

It's seriously time for the government to update their policies based on current science.

Note the underline-there lies the problem. There has not been a current update as of yet. It is being worked on as we speak. Now if you want to read all about how the TFP levels were found you can head over to the Deep End and do a search (use the G) for chemgeek.

 

[MeAndJulio]

For JamesW : but the first article says ANSI's ideal range is 2.0 - 4.0.
For all:
I understand the overall issue of lack of accounting for the CYA amounts when computing the chlorine levels.
It does appear that the science of pool chemistry is not easily explained or regulated because of the many factors of chemicals in pools and their relationships.
I am still concerned about chlorine levels higher than 4 in relation to the vinyl liner.
(sorry, (Ice Shadow) but anecdotal evidence is often biased, or negative comments aren't posted.)
Thanks for your time to consider the question and post your answers.

 

[Donldson]

(sorry, (Ice Shadow) but anecdotal evidence is often biased, or negative comments aren't posted.)

Perhaps, but your question is an" Appeal To Authority" rather than an attempt to find scientific evidence. So to say that anecdotal evidence is not trustworthy (not an untrue statement) but then seek out governmental approval is rather hypocritical.

You can manage your pool as you wish and believe who you wish, but your reasoning is not logical. We have plenty of evidence to back up our system, but if you require a government authority to assure you then that is your call.

Best of luck with your pool.

 

[Lemonred34]

CDC link reads to follow health department usually (1-3) which was actually 4ppm on the other link. Then in that statement it also reads if you wish to exceed those limits all other parameters must be suitable, but it doesn’t say how much one can “exceed.” So both of those links leave a lot to the imagination. Another page on CDC says AT LEAST 2ppm for stabilized pools but doesn’t give a max number.

My recommendation from pool math is 2-6 with my CYA. So not really that far off.

I will say for myself and my own personal experience, even at 10FC we have had zero skin irritations, stinging eyes or any ill affects.

While I can understand your concerns, what backing or evidence did you get from these links? Did they provide any case studies?

I see the 4ppm on pool products all the time but that I’m sure stems from what the government and cdc make them put on it.

I take all these people here as case studies. All their experience posted many times. I’ve read through hundreds of threads here. The results are there. Many here have been here for years with zero ill effects or faded liners. It will just boil down to personal choice.

I hope you can find the answers you are looking for.

http://ldh.la.gov/assets/oph/Center-EH/engineering/LOI/LOI-Water_Quality_Parameters_in_Public_Swimming_Pools.pdf

These are the regulations I found for public swimming pools for Louisiana. Their FC limit is 3 points higher than the lowest level recommended by pool math with a CYA of 90.

 

[kimkats]

I will take "When I did such and such......" over "THEY say....." any day of the week.