Rebalancing Pool Woes [with full logs]

[JackHarkness]

Hi everyone I wanna keep this short. recently I've been rebalancing the water of my neglected pool. It is now officially SWG and I have kept logs. I struggled with a TA of 410. (Tested 3 times) and CH of 600. I brought those down quite a bit.

Today was a struggle trying to use the whole...lower pH and aerate method to lower TA to range. It wouldnt budge despite me adding a BUTTLOAD of aeration using a pressure washer. pH hardly climbed either. Decided to bring FC from 0 instead and let TA lower naturally over time hopefully...

Please check my logs and inform me on TA and pH balance..and when it comes to liquid chlorine. Hopefully adding liquid chlorine doesnt cancel out the low pH without lowering TA? I believe aeration AND low ph is key to lowering TA...but if one has to increase FC with liquid chlorine...this would kind of negate the low pH side of things?

Frustrating...either way I tried my best...logs in my signature

 

[Texas Splash]

Looks like you are doing what is needed. I noticed on your logs the use of 14.5% acid. You might look into the 30% full strength for better value. But continue to let the pH rise to about 8.0 - 8.2 before lowering it to about 7.0 and aerating. You've come a long way already.

On a separate note, I would increase the CYA to about 30 minimum and keep the FC balanced as noted on the FC/CYA Levels. That process has no bearing on your TA process.

 

[ajw22]

How do you get TA of 400 when you say your fill water is TA 90??.

I think you have a problem with your testing method. Read…

Total Alkalinity

A drop-based test used to measure the alkalinity in water. Alkalinity helps serve as a … Read more…

www.troublefreepool.com

and note…

• Sometimes a static electric charge can build up on the R-0009 dropper bottle tip, causing the drops to be smaller than usual and making the test read higher than actual. You can prevent this by wipping the tip of the dropper bottle with a damp cloth or tissue before you start and after each drop.
• Hold the dropper bottles vertically and squeeze gently, so that drops come out slowly and seem to hang on the tip of the dropper bottle for a moment before falling.

 

[wireform]

Jack
Looking at your logs brings me to question your testing methods because with TFP methodology you can't possibly have a CYA of 15 or even 5. Also you absolutely need 30 CYA even this time of the year if it were a chlorine pool and 50ish if it's a SWCG pool. You also mention chlorine affecting ph and that's not so.

 

[JackHarkness]

How do you get TA of 400 when you say your fill water is TA 90??.

I think you have a problem with your testing method. Read…

Total Alkalinity

A drop-based test used to measure the alkalinity in water. Alkalinity helps serve as a … Read more…

www.troublefreepool.com

and note…

• Sometimes a static electric charge can build up on the R-0009 dropper bottle tip, causing the drops to be smaller than usual and making the test read higher than actual. You can prevent this by wipping the tip of the dropper bottle with a damp cloth or tissue before you start and after each drop.
• Hold the dropper bottles vertically and squeeze gently, so that drops come out slowly and seem to hang on the tip of the dropper bottle for a moment before falling.

Ta was before refill. It was 400. Also i followed that very page tp test

 

[JackHarkness]

Jack
Looking at your logs brings me to question your testing methods because with TFP methodology you can't possibly have a CYA of 15 or even 5. Also you absolutely need 30 CYA even this time of the year if it were a chlorine pool and 50ish if it's a SWCG pool. You also mention chlorine affecting ph and that's not so.

The CYA was measured using an Aqua system from Leslies. They claimed 5. My Taylor kit claims CYA is 10...the black dot doesn't vanish even if filled all the way to the top. I'm gonna guess its accurate

Also how does chlorine not affect pH? Isnt it basically chlorine which is a base by nature?

 

[ajw22]

Also how does chlorine not affect pH? Isnt it basically chlorine which is a base by nature?

PH - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

It is a myth that liquid chlorine will raise pH. The myth is based on a misunderstanding of chlorine chemistry.

Adding liquid chlorine to water can cause a temporary increase in pH which is usually offset by the chlorine reacting with organics and biological matter which are acidic (creates a proton) reactions. Thus, on balance, the net chlorine reactions are pH neutral.

Most retail and commercial liquid chlorine products contain a small excess of lye from the manufacturing process but this amount of OH- is minimal and does not change the pH with normal levels of liquid chlorine use.

If one were to add significant amounts of liquid chlorine (for example, raising the pool water chlorine concentration to SLAM FC levels), then the pH rise would need to be offset by an initial lower of the pH with acid. This is why TFP requires a pool owner to adjust their pH down to 7.2 prior to starting the SLAM Process.

Adding liquid chlorine DOES increase the pH at first, however as it's used up the acid that's created lowers it back down to where it was before......thus equaling each other out making it pH neutral.

 

[JackHarkness]

Looks like you are doing what is needed. I noticed on your logs the use of 14.5% acid. You might look into the 30% full strength for better value. But continue to let the pH rise to about 8.0 - 8.2 before lowering it to about 7.0 and aerating. You've come a long way already.

On a separate note, I would increase the CYA to about 30 minimum and keep the FC balanced as noted on the FC/CYA Levels. That process has no bearing on your TA process.

PH - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

It is a myth that liquid chlorine will raise pH. The myth is based on a misunderstanding of chlorine chemistry.

Adding liquid chlorine to water can cause a temporary increase in pH which is usually offset by the chlorine reacting with organics and biological matter which are acidic (creates a proton) reactions. Thus, on balance, the net chlorine reactions are pH neutral.

Most retail and commercial liquid chlorine products contain a small excess of lye from the manufacturing process but this amount of OH- is minimal and does not change the pH with normal levels of liquid chlorine use.

If one were to add significant amounts of liquid chlorine (for example, raising the pool water chlorine concentration to SLAM FC levels), then the pH rise would need to be offset by an initial lower of the pH with acid. This is why TFP requires a pool owner to adjust their pH down to 7.2 prior to starting the SLAM Process.

Adding liquid chlorine DOES increase the pH at first, however as it's used up the acid that's created lowers it back down to where it was before......thus equaling each other out making it pH neutral.

Wow...its been a while since I took inorganic chemistry. Thank you for that. So you're saying it always neutralizes so pH returns back to what it is? So if one is at 7.2 and SLAMS...it would go up and back down to 7.2 again eventually or slightly higher? Thank you

 

[ajw22]

So if one is at 7.2 and SLAMS...it would go up and back down to 7.2 again eventually or slightly higher?

Yes.

 

[JackHarkness]

Passed OFCLT.