Real talk about leveling

[nevromni]

I am not new to being an above ground pool owner but I am new to making sure it's done right. And yes I am OCD. I have scoured and scoured for information. We went to great lengths to level the ground before we installed our 24x52 Intex ultra XTR. We bought a roller and compacted soil, then it rained for two days straight. We were in a hurry to install getting ready for my son's birthday party. We laid ground cloth and pad.
We have finished installation as you can see. The top rail is level all the way around, the legs are straight and on pavers, there is no bulging or wrinkles in the liner, nothing is leaning, however there is a 2" level difference around seven pool legs/posts... Maybe 2 1/4 inch in one spot. You can't tell unless you're in the pool looking at those dang liner squares/tiles. I've walked all the way around the pool examining and measuring (did I say I was OCD?) and everything looks legit except that one little section from the inside. The other three quarters of the pool is level within an inch again top rail level all the way around and legs straight no bulging just want to make sure she's safe Yes the stupid squares drive me nuts but they are under the ladder and I can get used to it at least until the end of the season when we might consider releveling.

There is so much conflicting information depending on how you phrase your Google search it'll give you different answers. From what I have understood in my many hours of research 3" unlevel is the magic number for unsafe. 2" is still safe especially since structurally I see no stress in the liner..still a lot of give near the legs in the "deep end".
I just want to make sure it's safe for my son and his friends to play freely as freely as you can and above ground pool I can handle the cosmetic issue for the season.

Not looking for doomsday reports.. I'm well aware that seriously out of level is bad and it concerns me. But is 2-2 1/4 in out of level really that serious if everything else is level and straight?

 

[Newdude]

Hey Nevromni and Welcome !!!!

If your top rail is level, i'd wager the liner isn't hanging perfectly stretched from the rails, one side stretched a little more than the other, or its level but slightly oval-ed.

We recommend 1 inch variance or less.

 

[nevromni]

Thank you for your reply. I agree .. simply by the fact that it is deeper in one end versus the other means the liner is being stretched a little more on that deeper end... It is not something that is visible to the eye in this case with everything else level and the stretching not obvious or noticable. I know the safest recommendation is to have it level within 1" but I also know there is a safe maximum inch out of level.. I just wanted to get a feel for real users and real experiences with a level top rail and straight legs and no leaning how safe I really am at 2" unlevel between opposite ends?

 

[nevromni]

Thank you for your reply. I agree .. simply by the fact that it is deeper in one end versus the other means the liner is being stretched a little more on that deeper end... It is not something that is visible to the eye in this case with everything else level and the stretching not obvious or noticable. I know the safest recommendation is to have it level within 1" but I also know there is a safe maximum inch out of level.. I just wanted to get a feel for real users and real experiences with a level top rail and straight legs and no leaning how safe I really am at 2" unlevel between opposite ends?

I would also like to add when I walk around the pool, which I have multiple times, and look at the angle perpendicular wise of the legs to the ground and the gap between the liner and the legs they are even all the way around, the liner does not appear to be stretched in any significant way it seems to lay on the ground evenly for the most part. Again I believe these pools are built to withstand more than Google searches would lead you to believe. If they weren't durable they wouldn't sell them, this is not a wonky setup with legs all disheveled and the liner angled in different positions, it is level in many different ways. I believe some shifts in soft soil bottom and weight of pool caused an unlevel appearance that is valid but not necessarily "unsafe" ... I'm definitely not an expert and do have concerns but I'm not ignorant either so as I internally analyze I thought I'd put feelers out and make connections with other personal experiences.

 

[Newdude]

with a level top rail and straight legs and no leaning how safe I really am at 2" unlevel between opposite ends?

Which one is it ? The pattern may lie. The level does not.

Also, I dont think you can find a definitive answer. 2 inches off is a big difference on a 12 or 30ft pool. Or even on the same pool depending on which side is off for the rectangles.

 

[nevromni]

Which one is it ? The pattern may lie. The level does not.

Also, I dont think you can find a definitive answer. 2 inches off is a big difference on a 12 or 30ft pool. Or even on the same pool depending on which side is off for the rectangles.

Thank you for your reply. I am not using the tiles to measure I'm just saying they make the unevenness stand out more and make it look more distorted. I have measured the water surface to the top of the rail all around the pool and that's where I got the 2-in difference. I believe despite the excavating, leveling, and compacting we did The rains of course loosened up the soil and we installed on mud causing shifts in the soil of leading to the unlevel outcome. I used a level between every section and they are all within range. I used a string level across pool both ways and it shows level ... Not to mention after a couple of inches of water were in the pool and I was smoothing out the liner I came upon a rock that would not go back down into the ground so it took three .. two holding up the liner and me shimmying underneath it to remove the rock, successfully, but again this caused the soil to shift and that is "the deep end". You are right I am not going to find a definitive answer which is hard for my analytical brain. My thorough assessment and involvement in everything about this installation tells me it's safe for the season and I fully intend to make corrections before winterizing it.
I guess I'm just disappointed it's not perfect.

Which one is it ? The pattern may lie. The level does not.

Also, I dont think you can find a definitive answer. 2 inches off is a big difference on a 12 or 30ft pool. Or even on the same pool depending on which side is off for the rectangles.

I will also note that the 2-in difference or high side is only on one section consisting of 7 out of 24 legs. The rest of the pool is within 1" or less level. If that makes sense...
Based on everything I've shared i would assume the liner is not sitting quite right but it looks uniform all the way around and as I stated no bulging or leaning.

 

[phonedave]

We bought a roller and compacted soil

You did nothing to compact the soil with a roller. Seriously, you compacted maybe the top 1/4" of soil if you were luck, and almost definitely not to its maximum dry density.

I know the safest recommendation is to have it level within 1" but I also know there is a safe maximum inch out of level.. I just wanted to get a feel for real users and real experiences with a level top rail and straight legs and no leaning how safe I really am at 2" unlevel between opposite ends?

1" is what is recommended because 1" is considered safe. An above ground pool, especially an Intex type pool such as yours, is nothing more than a giant vinyl bag full of (heavy) water that is deriving all of its structural support from the integrity of the top ring and posts. It relies on all of the horizonal forces being in balance. Every bit it is out of level leads to greater unbalanced forces.

Again I believe these pools are built to withstand more than Google searches would lead you to believe. If they weren't durable they wouldn't sell them, this is not a wonky setup with legs all disheveled and the liner angled in different positions, it is level in many different ways. I believe some shifts in soft soil bottom and weight of pool caused an unlevel appearance that is valid but not necessarily "unsafe" ... I'm definitely not an expert and do have concerns but I'm not ignorant either so as I internally analyze I thought I'd put feelers out and make connections with other personal experiences.

I think you are looking at the facts, and you know they are the facts, but you don't want own up to the harsh reality that your pool likely needs to be re-done. I get it, it sucks. It is a lot of wasted work and money. But the fact is, the limits recommended by the manufacturer are there for a reason. Of course there is a factor of safety built into those limits. But the FS is there for a reason as well. Somebody leaning over the rail to try and reach a dropped float while someone else does a cannonball and all of a sudden you pool has turned into a giant, temporary, slip and slide.

Thank you for your reply. I am not using the tiles to measure I'm just saying they make the unevenness stand out more and make it look more distorted. I have measured the water surface to the top of the rail all around the pool and that's where I got the 2-in difference. I believe despite the excavating, leveling, and compacting we did The rains of course loosened up the soil and we installed on mud causing shifts in the soil of leading to the unlevel outcome. I used a level between every section and they are all within range. I used a string level across pool both ways and it shows level ... Not to mention after a couple of inches of water were in the pool and I was smoothing out the liner I came upon a rock that would not go back down into the ground so it took three .. two holding up the liner and me shimmying underneath it to remove the rock, successfully, but again this caused the soil to shift and that is "the deep end". You are right I am not going to find a definitive answer which is hard for my analytical brain. My thorough assessment and involvement in everything about this installation tells me it's safe for the season and I fully intend to make corrections before winterizing it.
I guess I'm just disappointed it's not perfect.

I will also note that the 2-in difference or high side is only on one section consisting of 7 out of 24 legs. The rest of the pool is within 1" or less level. If that makes sense...
Based on everything I've shared i would assume the liner is not sitting quite right but it looks uniform all the way around and as I stated no bulging or leaning.

Forget looing at the liner. Go around the pool and measure from the water line to the bottom of the top rail. Those measurements should all be withing 2 inches. It really does not matter if one leg is 2" low and all of the others are dead on, or if half the pool is lower than the other. Or even if somehow they are all in the same plane, but still 2" off of the water line. The liner is not a structural element, per se. The legs and rails are. The legs need to be plumb, and the rail level.

It is also recommended that you do not install a pool on any sort of fill dirt. You dig down to level, and that is all. If you have torn up the ground, you need to dig down more. Compacting fill is not as simple as "packing it real good". Adding water to help it pack is not a thing (well, it is, but it has to be the proper amount of water as determined by testing). A garden roller provides next to no compaction. Hand compactors really don' either. A BIG vibratory plate can be used, but it has to be used correctly, with the proper moisture content. Most people do not have the ability to A) Determine optimum moisture content and the acceptable deviation. B) What the water content of the soil is C) How much of the maximum dry density you have compacted the soil to.

 

[nevromni]

top

What makes you deduce that? We filled the ground a few inches, removed sod, spread dirt evenly...leveled leveled leveled ..filled the massive roller with water so that it was at its full weight capacity rolled over it time and time again and compacted the dry soil. It was nice and flat.

 

[nevromni]

You did nothing to compact the soil with a roller. Seriously, you compacted maybe the top 1/4" of soil if you were luck, and almost definitely not to its maximum dry density.



1" is what is recommended because 1" is considered safe. An above ground pool, especially an Intex type pool such as yours, is nothing more than a giant vinyl bag full of (heavy) water that is deriving all of its structural support from the integrity of the top ring and posts. It relies on all of the horizonal forces being in balance. Every bit it is out of level leads to greater unbalanced forces.


I think you are looking at the facts, and you know they are the facts, but you don't want own up to the harsh reality that your pool likely needs to be re-done. I get it, it sucks. It is a lot of wasted work and money. But the fact is, the limits recommended by the manufacturer are there for a reason. Of course there is a factor of safety built into those limits. But the FS is there for a reason as well. Somebody leaning over the rail to try and reach a dropped float while someone else does a cannonball and all of a sudden you pool has turned into a giant, temporary, slip and slide.



Forget looing at the liner. Go around the pool and measure from the water line to the bottom of the top rail. Those measurements should all be withing 2 inches. It really does not matter if one leg is 2" low and all of the others are dead on, or if half the pool is lower than the other. Or even if somehow they are all in the same plane, but still 2" off of the water line. The liner is not a structural element, per se. The legs and rails are. The legs need to be plumb, and the rail level.

It is also recommended that you do not install a pool on any sort of fill dirt. You dig down to level, and that is all. If you have torn up the ground, you need to dig down more. Compacting fill is not as simple as "packing it real good". Adding water to help it pack is not a thing (well, it is, but it has to be the proper amount of water as determined by testing). A garden roller provides next to no compaction. Hand compactors really don' either. A BIG vibratory plate can be used, but it has to be used correctly, with the proper moisture content. Most people do not have the ability to A) Determine optimum moisture content and the acceptable deviation. B) What the water content of the soil is C) How much of the maximum dry density you have compacted the soil to.

Did you even read my post in its entirety? I went around the pool several dozen times and still doing it daily, all of the sections of the top rail are level, the water level which I measured from water surface to top of rail is within an inch 3/4 of the way around the pool and about seven legs it's about 2 in off. I also used a string level across the pool in both directions and it showed level both ways.
I'm not unaware of the harsh reality which I also stated in my post, another point I stated in my post is that I was going to re-level it at the end of the season I just wanted to get some validation that it was safe with all of these other factors. You are giving me the doomsday report which I'm already aware of. I have had a professional look at it today and they told me good job 2 in is pretty good. That it was safe for the rest of the season and that they would help me relevel it at the end of the season.
This is the confirmation I was looking for, I also talked to Intex and they told me they construct their pools to withstand up to 2 in maximum out of level they told me not to worry just keep an eye on it and the water level, I've had above ground pools in the past I had one for five or six years that was always 3 to 3 and 1/2 in out of level never had a problem didn't figure I'd have a problem with this one was just looking for others in the same boat but thanks for your criticisms.

 

[duraleigh]

I predict your pool may stay upright but it will bug you EVERY time you look at it.

If you can be 2" out of level and ignore it, you are NOT OCD

 

[nevromni]

I predict your pool may stay upright but it will bug you EVERY time you look at it.

If you can be 2" out of level and ignore it, you are NOT OCD

Exactly my friend! I am definitely obsessing over it, that's why I've been scouring and scouring and scouring for information. I won't be able to stick with it I just want to be able to stick out the rest of the season and fix it at the end of it. As I stated in my last reply I had a professional come look at it and they said it was fine for this season they said 2 in out is pretty good and it didn't look structurally unsound, I'll get it corrected with their help in a few months and next year will be a whole new ball game! Fortunately it looks perfect from our porch view .. and all the way around from the ground. Can only see the discrepancy while inside the pool.