Raypak 406A Gas Heater - clock/fireman switch

[edima302]

Yes the pump was running when the heater turned on and I have always set the heater temperature in automation. The temperature on the aqua link RS controller on my wall is showing the correct temperature and the light turned from white to red when the heater turned on from being engaged..

I’m not sure I follow where I need to connect the red and black wires from the remote. Do I connect them on what I have circled on the pic ?

 

[JamesW]

Yes, the 3 wires should have a tag that says

"Where necessary connect remote switch here."

Turn off power.

Remove the tag and pull up the 3 wires. One remote wire (red or black) goes to the blue wire, the other wire connects to the black wire with an orange stripe. The orange wire with a black stripe gets capped off.

Verify that the black and red wire are connected to the green 10 pin connector in the aqualink rs box to terminals 1 and 2. Verify the switch is closing on call for heat by checking for continuity with a multimeter between the red and black wires.

Right now, the heater's thermostat is controlling the temperature.

There might be a problem with the remote switch or wiring because the error wouldn't have happened if the remote switch was working.

 

[JamesW]

Right now, the heater is running on its own controller and temperature sensor. The automation has no control. The heater will heat based on the temperature set on the heater. It will run as needed while the pump is on. If the pump turns off, the heater should turn off due to its pressure switch.

It's usually best to turn the heater off about 5 to 15 minutes before the pump is turned off to allow the heater to cool down before the water flow stops.

If the heater is running when the pump turns off, you get heat trapped in the heater, which shortens the life of the heater.

When the heater is controlled by the automation, the automation turns off the heater about 15 minutes before it turns off the pump.

When there is no automation and the pump is controlled by a timer, the timer should have a little switch built in that turns off the heater 15 minutes before turning off the pump. This is called a fireman's switch and it's connected to the fireman's loop in the heater.

Right now, you should make sure that the heater gets turned off about 15 minutes before the pump is scheduled to turn off.

 

[edima302]

Thanks JamesW, I will have to look at this tomorrow as it’s getting late here. One thing worth mentioning again is that I can’t help but think that my heater issues surfaced when my spa side controller went on me and as a temporary fix, I just disconnected the terminal from the aqualink box. Do you think perhaps that is the issue and that I should plug in the terminal again ? It’s the black terminal that is actually still plugged in in this pic.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and btw, when I first noticed the clock/fireman switch message on my heater I did plug in that black terminal in the aqualink box and it still did not fix my issue. The reason why I had to disconnect it is because my pool would switch to spa mode on its own in auto when I would have it in pool mode.

 

[JamesW]

The other end of the remote wires from the heater should be connected to the green terminal bar in #1 and #2 (farthest right on the 10 terminal green bar).

Is that correct?

Maybe one of the heater remote wires got knocked loose when you were working on the black terminal bar?

The black terminal bar goes to the spa side remote. If the remote is not working properly you should disconnect it so that it doesn't interfere with the operation.

The green terminal bar is for the air temperature sensor (#8 and #7),water temperature sensor (#6 and #5) and the solar temperature sensor (#4 and #3) (if solar enabled) and the heater remote on/off switch (#2 and #1).

Position #1 and #2 on the green terminal bar (furthest right, not left) are where the red and black wires should connect for the heater control.

Maybe leave the heater off for the night or leave the pump on to avoid having the pump turn off while the heater is on.

Since it worked before, you could connect the remote back to the fireman's loop like it was before or you can connect to the remote blue and black/with orange stripe.

 

[bdavis466]

I've always wondered why Raypak has the fireman's switch and the remote option. I've seen the heaters wired to automation using both methods and both seem to work the same.

Does it really mater in this case since the heater is working using the FM switch?

 

[JamesW]

Using the fireman's switch should be fine. It has always worked. For some reason the remote switch isn't closing the loop. I suspect that the wire might have been knocked loose when the other nearby wires were being worked on.

Once the remote wiring is fixed, they can connect to the fireman's switch or the remote wiring connections.

 

[ps0303]

Whoever installs units like this has no understanding on how the units are suppose to operate. Using the fireman's switch with automation is not the correct way nor is it taught as a way to hook heaters up to automation.

 

[JamesW]

The switch just allows an external source to control the heater. There's no reason that it can't be used. Jandy Aqualink RS says to use it to control heaters.

3.4.1 Jandy Heater Connections
1. Connect two #14 gauge wires, designed for use in hot environments, to the #1 and #2 terminals on the green, 10-pin terminal bar.
2. Connect the other ends of the #14 gauge wires from step 1 to the fireman's switch terminal bar in place of the factory installed wire loop.
3. Do not disconnect high limit or pressure switches.
4. Turn the heater thermostat(s) to maximum
setting.
5. Turn the heater switch to the ON position.
For dual thermostat heaters turn switch to
Spa position.

 

[bdavis466]

The switch just allows an external source to control the heater. There's no reason that it can't be used. Jandy Aqualink RS says to use it to control heaters.

The pentair units are the same. Automation connects to the fireman's switch.

 

[JamesW]

From the maxetherm manual.

REMOTE CONTROL CONNECTIONS
1. Switch off power to heater at main circuit breaker panel.
2. Unbolt and remove the upper jacket halves (see Figure 24).
3. Open control box cover.
4a. To connect a 2-Wire Control (such as Pentair Aquatic
Systems IntelliTouch® or EasyTouch® controll systems)
or a timer:
- Remove the factory installed jumper from the Fireman’s
Switch terminals.
- Connect wires between the Fireman’s Switch terminals
on the heater and the relay. Connect wires from the
controller or timer to the Fireman’s Switch. Controller,
timer or relay should be sized to handle 24VAC at 0.5
Amp (because it will be completing the 24VAC control
board circuit on the heater as shown in Figure 25).

INSTALLATION AND USER’S GUIDE
STA-RITE® MAX-E-THERM® POOL AND SPA HEATER

It is preferred that full-time power be supplied to the heater from the GFCI power source, and that the heater be controlled by the fireman’s switch connection or using a two or three-wire remote.
From the Raypak installation manual.

 

[ps0303]

JamesW and bdavis466, The heater in question is a Raypak and not one of the units you two mention. What I presented is directly from the Raypak manual.

I am merely telling folks NOT to hook this unit, Raypak/Rheem, up this way, using the clock/firemans switch, with automation. I know the OP didn't do this connection but whoever did, did it wrong per this manufacturer.

 

[JamesW]

From the same manual.

It is preferred that full-time power be supplied to the heater from the GFCI power source, and that the heater be controlled by the fireman’s switch connection or using a two or three-wire remote.
From the Raypak installation manual.

So, it says that controlling from the fireman's switch is ok.

The tag in the heater says don't connect the remote to the fireman's loop. But, that contradicts the manual.

The fireman's loop in the Raypak works the exact same way that the fireman's loop works in the other heaters. There's nothing special or different about it.

In any case, I don't see a problem with connecting the remote to the fireman's loop.

 

[edima302]

JamesW, I have attached a photo of what is going on in the Aqualink panel. So to your point, it looks like there is something going on with the green terminal as position 2 is missing a wire (actually it looks like it's cut). See red circle on pic. Do I add the red wire that I have circled? Also, have a look at the wire I have circled in green. Do you think that came out from somewhere or do I not need it? I think you explained on an earlier post what each position on the green terminal represents so not sure I need to connect this wire? Also, assuming that the answer is the red wire, should I connect the firemans switch again to how I had it before I changed it the other night?

 

[edima302]

looks like I attached old pics and I am unable to add any news ones as ive exceeded my file limit.. anyone know how I can manage my files uploads?

 

[JamesW]

There should be a wire from terminal #1 on the green terminal bar in the Aqualink to one of the red wires from the fireman's loop and one wire from terminal #2 on the green terminal bar in the aqualink to the other red wire of the fireman's loop.

The wires should be there already, so maybe they got knocked loose?

Can you post a close up of the green terminal bar?

If you become a supporter, you get more picture room. Or you can post at a hosting site and link to the pictures.

 

[edima302]

Ok making progress. So I undid what I did to the heater the other night and connected the fireman’s switch the way I found it when I opened it up. As for the green terminal, I have the black wire on position one and connected the red one to position two. Powered up the aqua link system and turned on the pump followed by the heater and it fired up. What I noticed though is that the heater still read fireman’s switch/open before I turned it on yet it still worked but guess that’s ok ? Also, I must have knocked out another wire as the aqua link controller on my wall reads air temp open. I think that’s another wire on the green terminal that might have come loose? Currently I have wires in positions 1,2,5,6 and 8. Wires 1 and 5 are black the others red. Is this correct ? Getting closer thanks for your patience and knowledge !

 

[JamesW]

On the green terminal bar
The air temperature sensor goes to #8 and #7
The water temperature sensor connects to #6 and #5
The solar temperature sensor goes to #4 and #3 (if solar enabled)
And the heater remote on/off switch connects to #2 and #1.

So, you're missing the wire going to #7. It should be connected to the same sensor as the #8 wire. Follow #8 to find #7.

The heater display will say open fireman's switch when the automation is not telling the heater to turn on.

 

[edima302]

JamesW, thanks I’ll do this tonight when I get home and will let you know.. thx again!

In hindsight if the root cause of my heater issue was just a missing (loose) wire, I certainly got a great education and now better understand how my pool (and equipment) are wired and set up. Much appreciated

 

[edima302]

Order is restored ! All seems to be working fine - heater is working as it should and I connected the missing air temperature sensor. Can’t thank you enough JamesW!!