RADIANT POOL

[Pool Novice NY]

I am looking to purchase the radiant pool here on LONG ISLAND but have read mixed reviews about corrosion on the thin aluminum a couple years down the line . I sat with a local dealer and it was top dollar for this product and just get nervous putting Masonary all around this! Any help would be appreciated thanks in advance

 

[kimkats]

Hi and Welcome to TFP! A pool is a big investment! Best to read as many reviews as you can.

putting Masonary all around this

I am not sure what you mean by this.

Kim

 

[Pool Novice NY]

Hey! Thanks for responding .. by the time I purchase the pool have it installed and excavated with finishing pavers I will be in for 40-50k (which is what I was quoted from local dealer) I am worried if there is severe corrosion and I need repairs done (new panel) in a few seasons it’s not worth the headache and just go with a concrete pool ... i have read a few people horror stories with “the radiant pool” just trying to do my homework because it’s the newest pool on the island and does have curb appeal

 

[newdude]

Welcome and hi.. So you are looking for an above ground pool (ABG), and the extras associated with it (deck/patio) make it close to an inground pool (IG) build ? This is the dilemma, right ?

 

[Pool Novice NY]

Hey! Ty for responding .. there is an above ground pool called “the radiant “ in Long Island which can go all the way in the ground (concrete collar etc) there are really cool shapes and will do any custom size .. I am very interested but did some reading and afraid of burying it and putting expensive pavers around it to only have trouble in a few seasons.. more looking for any other people who have purchased the radiant and some feed back !

 

[jseyfert3]

I looked it up. Interesting concept. Sounds like you're going to dig this in and make it look like a traditional pool? If so, is there a particular reason you want to do a Radiant pool over a traditional concrete pool, such as the insulation? If not, a regular in-ground gunite pool seems like a better option at the price you're looking at.

Disclaimer: I'm not a pool expert. I'm planning on buying a $1700 Intex above ground pool.

 

[kimkats]

Why even take the chance? If you cover ANY inground pool you will keep most of the heat in. You lose heat from the open top of the pool.

 

[Pool Novice NY]

I looked it up. Interesting concept. Sounds like you're going to dig this in and make it look like a traditional pool? If so, is there a particular reason you want to do a Radiant pool over a traditional concrete pool, such as the insulation? If not, a regular in-ground gunite pool seems like a better option at the price you're looking at.

Disclaimer: I'm not a pool expert. I'm planning on buying a $1700 Intex above ground pool.

Thanks for the reply ! The “radiant” pool is very big on Long Island right now and know a few people who have them above semi and Inground .. people are saying there pool stays warmer but I’m not sure if they drank the kool-aid LOL

 

[Pool Novice NY]

Welcome and hi.. So you are looking for an above ground pool (ABG), and the extras associated with it (deck/patio) make it close to an inground pool (IG) build ? This is the dilemma, right ?

Hey thanks for the reply ! There is a pool on Long Island called the “radiant” with styrofoam walls with aluminum Wall around it that can be put fully Inground and it’s at my local dealer .. when I did some research I found mixed reviews so just doing my home work !

 

[newdude]

How much for just the pool ? You could be doing a $5k patio or a $40k patio. Just the pool and (which) equiptment will make it easier to tell.

So I spent a while looking into it and it’s pretty mixed alright. They have full ABG models in standard ABG sizes and they have semi and IG models/ sizes also.

For starters the ABG pool appeared to cost about double. $6k DIY and $3K for dealer install. The lifetime 100% warranty would justify the cost but there are expensive hoops to jump through like buying their brand covers. I imagine they would make you buy wear and tear items like the liner specifically from them at inflated costs also.

The semi inground is this pools sweet spot. It’s medium priced $10k to $18k installed and the coated walls solve the problem of burying a typical metal pool. It also looked to be ideal for sloped yards. No need to backfill the low side or build a retaining wall. Same warranty which is both plus and minus.

The inground pools cost very close to traditional IG pools. $18k to $28.6k. That’s far cheaper than a gunite pool but for those with concrete or metal walls, it’s right there. My concrete 20x4O was $28.5 for just the pool and equipment. They claim the R-10 insulation in the panel will make the pool ‘pay for itself’ in heating costs, but I have the same insulation between my concrete and liner so it won’t Return on investment any quicker than my pool.


So my jury is out. You could love the pool, and love the piece of mind that they are selling you. It’s your yard and your money. But the salesperson is no better than any other salesperson. They will have a perfect brochure with perfect selling points. ‘The pool even pays for itself !!!’

A couple of things to look into further: Within the top links searching were bad reviews. Is it just some really loud people, or is it tons and tons of people ? And what exactly are the worst reviews ? Customer service or catastrophic pool failure ?

Some of those reviews were complaining about the costs to maintain the pool to Radiant Standards in order to keep the warranty. Is $50 a lot to those people or was it $5000 ?

Can you use traditional pool equipment or are you stuck buying Radiant brand pumps and filters ?

Can you maintain your own water or will you have to go for a weekly test at the PBs pool store ? They can force whatever magic potions on you each week if yes. Dangle your warranty over your head if you don’t spend $300 this week.

I know there were some people here that had them. Hopefully they add their experiences.

 

[Dirk]

How did the manufacturer determine that their pool stays warmer than another? Did they build two pools, of the exact same size, side by side, with the exact same sun and wind exposure, of the exact same color, with the exact same pumps and filters and pipes? Do they publish or otherwise share their test data? Otherwise, their claim is meaningless. I know nothing about the heat retention properties of pool shell materials, but you're going to need some pretty good evidence if you're trying to convince me that anything insulates better than 8" of plaster and concrete... I'm not saying that isn't possible, I'm just saying "Prove it!"

 

[newdude]

I was almost certain it was Kool-aid and didn’t look further into it.

 

[kimkats]

Most of the heat is lost through the open top of the pool so.............

The thing about warranties is getting them to honor it and that can be tough My last liner had a warranty BUT the cost of the "prorated" liner to replace it was MUCH higher than I could find on line

 

[jseyfert3]

I know nothing about the heat retention properties of pool shell materials, but you're going to need some pretty good evidence if you're trying to convince me that anything insulates better than 8" of plaster and concrete... I'm not saying that isn't possible, I'm just saying "Prove it!"

Poured concrete has an R value of 0.08 per inch, or 0.64 for 8 inches. Can't find plaster but I'd assume it's similar.

R-0.64 is terrible for insulation. R-10, what the radiant pool is, is much better than that.

Of course, if you get a concrete shell with a fiberglass liner and insulate between them like NewDude, then you get the same insulation without the fancy pool name.

I keep seeing people here (this and kther threads) saying insulation won't help cause the ground/concrete insulates well enough and the pool looses most of the heat through the top, and the engineer in me is saying "that doesn't sound quite right", especially if you're in a colder climate and want to get the pool up sooner and open later, and use heaters of some sort. There's a reason they typically insulate under concrete slabs when building houses (again, at least in colder climates). Keep in mind it's mostly going to be beneficial for colder areas, for California/Florida/Arizona I'd not expect insulation to be worth it, but I imagine it would be in NY (where the OP is) or the Midwest.

I should punch some numbers on this. I might do that later today.

To the OP: I noticed the warranty requires you to pay to ship the damaged panel back to them. I imagine that may cost a fair bit cause you're talking freight shipping due to size. They also don't cover installation costs. And you'll need a new liner after a panel has been pulled and replaced. So yes, the warranty covers the pool itself, but keep in mind the extra costs. In addition to water care as others have pointed out.

 

[Dirk]

jseyfert3, thanks for the numbers. Concrete has let me down. That is a significant difference in R value. And surely that difference would equate to some amount of savings to heat the water. But how does one calculate that? There's theoretical math that could be done (which I suspect is all they did) and there is real-world math, which could only be done (to my satisfaction) by a legitimate controlled experiment (like building their pool right next to a concrete pool, eliminating all the variables I listed above, and then comparing gas bills).

If a Radiant Pool satisfies a customer aesthetically, and costs the same or less to build than their next choice, and lasts as long or longer (NOT just warranted to), and can save them money to heat the water, then that's certainly something to take a good look at. But, again, they gotta show us the math...

 

[jseyfert3]

Calculating the heat loss to the ground is fairly easy. You can look up average ground temp for a particular location at certain time of year.

Calculating heat loss from the surface of the pool is harder to accurately do, especially if the pool is uncovered. I think you could get a decent estimate though assuming a solar cover that stops evaporation, as evaporation would be the leading cause of heat loss in pretty much any pool that is left uncovered.

 

[Dirk]

OK, we're getting there (though I still want to see more than theoretical math). There are many other considerations, some of which have been brought up by others. Some of whom have pretty much debunked the warranty (most pool warranties are of very little value). What are the other ongoing maintenance expenses? How long does this pool last compared to gunite? Is the OP going to live in that house for decades, or is this his starter home? I'm working in another thread with a pool that is 48 years old! Others I've seen here are approaching 75! You have to add the cost of replastering every decade or two for gunite. Pebble finishes are helping to improve that number. So concrete pools can muster up some pretty reliable long-term costs. The OP needs to do that math along with the heating savings, to come up with the projected value for Radiant. Will he have to replace the entire pool every ten years? Or will long-term maintenance compare to a gunite pool? I did similar math when trying to decide about pebble vs plaster. Pebble was about 50% more. This is my forever home, I guessed at my remaining lifespan to figure out how many more times I'd have to replace plaster vs pebble. I'm hoping the pebble I decided on will outlast me, which would make it a better value (for me) than two more plaster replacements. Point being, that's the kind of math I'm suggesting the OP do, and for that he needs some real world data about Radiant Pools (to compare with the real world math available for other types of pools). The savings on heating would be meaningless if the pool only lasts a few years, but substantial if the pool might last 100...

 

[newdude]

And that’s only for those with a heater. For anyone going without, there is no savings to speak of.
I’m also going to guess that the liner has a proprietary locking system so of course you can only buy it from them but if cost isn’t the upmost concern and they make a quality product than it could still work for people.

 

[Pool Novice NY]

How much for just the pool ? You could be doing a $5k patio or a $40k patio. Just the pool and (which) equiptment will make it easier to tell.

Hey your reply’s are extremely thorough and informative... I was quoted 20k for pool liner and special “radiant winter cover” also outside acrylic step ..I could finance the pool which is nice but it’s a couple thousand out of pocket to pay for the labor ... was pricing between 10-20k patio around it and the pool equipment is Hayward

 

[Pool Novice NY]

OK, we're getting there (though I still want to see more than theoretical math). There are many other considerations, some of which have been brought up by others. Some of whom have pretty much debunked the warranty (most pool warranties are of very little value). What are the other ongoing maintenance expenses? How long does this pool last compared to gunite? Is the OP going to live in that house for decades, or is this his starter home? I'm working in another thread with a pool that is 48 years old! Others I've seen here are approaching 75! You have to add the cost of replastering every decade or two for gunite. Pebble finishes are helping to improve that number. So concrete pools can muster up some pretty reliable long-term costs. The OP needs to do that math along with the heating savings, to come up with the projected value for Radiant. Will he have to replace the entire pool every ten years? Or will long-term maintenance compare to a gunite pool? I did similar math when trying to decide about pebble vs plaster. Pebble was about 50% more. This is my forever home, I guessed at my remaining lifespan to figure out how many more times I'd have to replace plaster vs pebble. I'm hoping the pebble I decided on will outlast me, which would make it a better value (for me) than two more plaster replacements. Point being, that's the kind of math I'm suggesting the OP do, and for that he needs some real world data about Radiant Pools (to compare with the real world math available for other types of pools). The savings on heating would be meaningless if the pool only lasts a few years, but substantial if the pool might last 100...

Thank you for your response!