Question about Polaris cleaner

[Texasnative]

Hi all, question about how the plumbing is done for our Polaris cleaner. We have a booster pump on our pad and I can see the suction and return lines. Is the suction line coming directly from the pool? And does this go through our filter pump in any way? The filter cuts on anytime the Polaris is running but what I’m trying to figure out is what an extra return grate in a wall in the pool is for. Is this extra return for the Polaris?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Tex,

If you have a booster pump you have a Pressure Side cleaner so there is no suction. The reason the filter pump kicks on is that the booster pump by itself does not generate enough pressure to run the cleaner.

I suspect the "extra" grate is a gravity overflow line to keep your pool from overflowing in a rain storm.

Show us some pics..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Texasnative]

Thanks Jim. Here is what I’ve got. Im not including pics of the filter pump, negative edge, or spa returns since I’m pretty confident in where those are. In the pics you will see a set of two returns together, I’m assuming this is our waterfall pump? And then in the next picture there is a single return in line with the skimmer. This is the one I can’t figure out. Note, the cleaner hookup is next to the skimmer if that matters.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Tex,

From a terminology point of view, things that send water back to the pool are called "Returns".. Things that suck water out of the pool are called " Suction Intakes or Drains"...

So, the grate that is right below your skimmer is some kind of Intake line.. Since it is inline with your skimmer, my guess is that it is what is called an equalizer port.. Basically, if the water level in the skimmer falls below the skimmer mouth then the water can enter from the equalizer intake.

You can test this theory by opening the skimmer and removing the basket.. See if you have two open pipes at the bottom of the skimmer.. The pipe closest to the pool should be connected to the equalizer port. Stick a garden hose in the pipe and see if you can feel water coming (backwards) out of the Intake cover.. You might need to have the pump off for this to work.

It could still be something else.. It could still be an overflow port or an input to a water auto leveling system.

Do you have two skimmers? If so, does your other skimmer have an pipe of some type right below it??

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Texasnative]

Ugh, sorry for the terminology "oops", hadn't finished my coffee this morning. Just checked the skimmer and yes there is two pipes, although there is a cover that flips around to cover the one closest to the pool. So how does this work if it is covered like this? Is there another pipe lower below the skimmer that it pulls water in from if the skimmer gets too low? Only this one skimmer.

 

[Dirk]

When there is water in the skimmer, it would work normally. If the water dropped below the skimmer opening, the pump would suck the skimmer dry and then draw air (bad!). But if you have an equalizer port for the skimmer, there would be some sort of flap in the skimmer that would drop into place once the skimmer ran out of water, so that the pump would then draw water from the equalizer port instead of air from the skimmer. I've never seen one myself, but I think that's what you're describing.

The other two suction ports, by the light, should go to the same thing (probably your water feature), as suction lines are supposed to be in split between two openings, just like what yours looks like (the two work together to prevent entrapment under water).

If looks like you have two feature pumps, so it's possible that there is just one port for each pump, which is not ideal, safety-wise. Then another pump for the spa (that pump's suction port would be in the spa). And then the booster pump for the vac. The booster pump should draw its water from one of the return pipes on the pad, not the pool. It's "boosting" the pressure from your main filter pump. Looks like they connected it underground, which is a little unusual.

Does the pump nearest the left wall have a label?

That's a lotta pumps!

 

[Dirk]

You can test all this out, if you want to get in! Try one pump at a time, squirt a little food coloring in front of each port and see what goes to what.

If you don't see two suction ports in the spa, they sometimes plumb two ports to the same drain. That type of drains has a sump under the drain cover that has two ports in it, similar to what your skimmer looks like.

 

[Texasnative]

When there is water in the skimmer, it would work normally. If the water dropped below the skimmer opening, the pump would suck the skimmer dry and then draw air (bad!). But if you have an equalizer port for the skimmer, there would be some sort of flap in the skimmer that would drop into place once the skimmer ran out of water, so that the pump would then draw water from the equalizer port instead of air from the skimmer. I've never seen one myself, but I think that's what you're describing.

The other two suction ports, by the light, should go to the same thing (probably your water feature), as suction lines are supposed to be in split between two openings, just like what yours looks like (the two work together to prevent entrapment under water).

If looks like you have two feature pumps, so it's possible that there is just one port for each pump, which is not ideal, safety-wise. Then another pump for the spa (that pump's suction port would be in the spa). And then the booster pump for the vac. The booster pump should draw its water from one of the return pipes on the pad, not the pool. It's "boosting" the pressure from your main pump. Looks like they connected it underground, which is a little unusual.

Does the pump nearest the left wall have a label?

That's a lotta pumps!

From left to right on the pumps.....Negative edge, waterfall, booster, Spa Jets, filter pump. All have dual intakes in the pool or spa (except the booster). The waterfall is the two intakes on the side wall in the first picture.

 

[Texasnative]

You can test all this out, if you want to get in! Try one pump at a time, squirt a little food coloring in front of each port and see what goes to what.

If you don't see two suction ports in the spa, they sometimes plumb two ports to the same drain. Those types of drains have a sump under the drain cover that has two ports in it, similar to what your skimmer looks like.

We have four in the spa actually, the filter suctions and the spa jet suctions.

 

[Dirk]

Curious, does your spa spillover all the time, whether in pool mode or spa mode?

 

[Dirk]

Dual intakes everywhere! Excellent. Then Jim's theory of the equalizer tube is probably right. If you can't get his hose test to work, you can try a leaf blower or shop vac on "blow mode."

 

[Texasnative]

Curious, does your spa spillover all the time, whether in pool mode or spa mode?

No, just when it is on normal filter mode. When in spa mode it pulls and returns in the spa only.

Dual intakes everywhere! Excellent. Then Jim's theory of the equalizer tube is probably right. If you can't get his hose test to work, you can try a leaf blower or shop vac on "blow mode."

I may try this when it is a little warmer. I looked in the second pipe that is covered in my pic and it doesn't go down very far. Thinking back to when I backwashed the other day and was adding DE, I saw a little DE coming out of the grate below the skimmer in the pool when I added a tad bit too much into the skimmer. So they are somehow connected. Not sure how some came back out when the filter pump was on but for whatever reason it did. I'll clarify that it wasn't shooting out just sort of a puff of DE.

 

[Dirk]

Sorry, I think I misspoke. This video shows a skimmer diverter valve I was describing earlier. Your skimmer appears to have only a diverter flap, which is used to control the flow of water coming from a main drain, when the drain is routed through the skimmer. It looks like your drain is plumbed to the pad, so it's possible that flap does nothing, and the second port in the skimmer connects to nothing. It's just unused. Perhaps the flap is there to keep crud from accumulating in that opening-to-nowhere.

 

[Dirk]

Thinking back to when I backwashed the other day and was adding DE, I saw a little DE coming out of the grate below the skimmer in the pool when I added a tad bit too much into the skimmer. So they are somehow connected. Not sure how some came back out when the filter pump was on but for whatever reason it did. I'll clarify that it wasn't shooting out just sort of a puff of DE.

Well, that is a mystery. If that is an equalizer, and it's not connected to the second port in the skimmer, with a proper diverter/float valve in the skimmer, then I'm stumped. It could be connected below the skimmer, which would explain the puff of DE, but as I understand it that's not ideal, because if the skimmer ran dry, what would keep the air from getting sucked into the pump? Sorry, I'm missing something...

 

[Dirk]

This explains things a bit.

Inground Pool Skimmer Plumbing Diagrams

How pool skimmer pipes are connected underground. Common, and old style methods of plumbing pool skimmers on inground pools.

blog.intheswim.com

or this one:

Equalizer Lines & Anti Entrapment - Automated Aquatics

If we were to discuss major operational changes over the last 10 years in aquatics, it would be hard to think of anything more prominent than anti-entrapment compliance. As of Dec 2007, the United States federal Virginia Graeme Baker Pool & Spa Safety Act catapulted anti-entrapment risk...

automatedaquatics.com

It's possible the PB never installed the float valve. When I inherited my pool, the main drain was connected to the skimmer, and the skimmer had neither a float valve or a diverter. So my main drain was never active. (I later removed the main drain.)

It's also possible the float valve was replaced by the diverter you now have. If the skimmer ran dry and its float valve engaged an equalizer port that did not have a dual anti-entrapment setup, that might violate anti-entrapment codes. Maybe that wasn't caught until after the pool was built, and so the solution was to disable the equalizer function. Without the float valve, plus the diverter flap covering the equalizer port in the skimmer, you would in effect cancel the entrapment danger. Though that hair-brained theory doesn't really explain the puff of DE, unless some DE got past your diverter flap?

Sorry, not much help.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Tex,

I'm still betting on an equalizer port..

Please let us know what you eventually find out..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Rocket J Squirrel]

The reason the filter pump kicks on is that the booster pump by itself does not generate enough pressure to run the cleaner.

Forgive me if this is nitpicking. The typical 1 HP booster pump has plenty of pressure to run the cleaner. Polaris even supplies a pair of restrictors to reduce the flow if needed.

The filter pump must be on so that there is water in the pipe that the booster pump draws from. Without the filter pump, water in the pipe could drain down leaving the booster sucking air.

 

[Dirk]

No, just when it is on normal filter mode. When in spa mode it pulls and returns in the spa only.

The reason I asked was unrelated to your original question. You have a valve on your return manifold that I don't quite recognize. It looks to be on a pipe that draws from just before your tab feeder, and returns to the spa side of the manifold. I've seen similar setups, that run from the pool return to the spa return, to allow a little bit of water to constantly flow to the spa, regardless of mode, so that the spa can stay sanitized, even if spillover mode is never used. Typically that's not wide open. But your setup is different, in that 1) the water through that pipe is coming from before the sanitizer, and 2) the valve is wide open, which seems like it would keep your spa constantly spilling over. Sorry, another mystery I can't help with...

 

[Jimrahbe]

Forgive me if this is nitpicking. The typical 1 HP booster pump has plenty of pressure to run the cleaner. Polaris even supplies a pair of restrictors to reduce the flow if needed.

RJS,

That is not nitpicking, it is great info.. I did not realize that.. So it is possible that the "unknown" Intake could actually be for the Booster pump, which would mean that you would not need to run the main pump to have the cleaner work.. If true, that will be the first time that I have seen that set up..

This is what I love about this site.. I learn something new here almost everyday.. Except how to spell, of course..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Texasnative]

The reason I asked was unrelated to your original question. You have a valve on your return manifold that I don't quite recognize. It looks to be on a pipe that draws from just before your tab feeder, and returns to the spa side of the manifold. I've seen similar setups, that run from the pool return to the spa return, to allow a little bit of water to constantly flow to the spa, regardless of mode, so that the spa can stay sanitized, even if spillover mode is never used. Typically that's not wide open. But your setup is different, in that 1) the water through that pipe is coming from before the sanitizer, and 2) the valve is wide open, which seems like it would keep your spa constantly spilling over. Sorry, another mystery I can't help with...

Here is a better picture. Are you talking about the pipe w/ the flapper valve? In this picture the pool is in normal filter mode. You can't tell from the picture but the flapper is open enough that water is flowing into the spa and overflowing into the pool. Also, my pool return jets are pushing water out right now out of the pool return pipe. When in spa mode the jandy valve rotates and nothing is returned to the pool. Whenever I inherited this pool from the previous owners the pool return valve in the bottom left was barely open and more water was diverted to the spa. Couldn't ever figure out why so we opened the pool return all the way to help push more water into the pool.