Question About Fiberglass Pool Install

[NCPoolNewbie]

All, we have a 30 x 14 Rectangular Fiberglass Pool Installed. After the pool was set in place, water started going in with gravel backfill, all is good. We are also installed an automatic pool cover, so after the pool was about 1/3 filled, the cover people came in to install the housing and the tracks. Then the rest of the water pumped in and the gravel was installed. The gravel was leveled and all the bonding and electrical work was done. Now the pool coping (Belgrade) and pavers came in. The team took some measurements and I have what I believe is a major problem, however the pool installer doesn't think so and looking for other opinions, I am just about tor ready to contact the manufacture and get them involved (Installer a registered dealer for the manufacture).

The pool is out of a level (which I understand can be a challenge over a long distance), but was really concerns me is that is "racked", ie two opposite corners and low and the other opposite corners are high. I do not see how it is going to be possible to get a clean paver install as well as am concerned about the pool cover operating properly since it will be an imbalanced load.

It seems to me that this should be able to be tighter, curious what others think.

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

Put a 4' level on the pool edges and check that all sides are level. The industry spec is within 1 inch in 40 feet.

The Viking manual states the pool should be within 1/2 inch of level before removing the crane and beginning the backfill/lock-in process. A Latham install guide confirms 1/2 inch level, or within one inch if using tile for concealment. A Leisure Install Guide is even more critical by saying 3mm above/below the datum reference, so 6 mm total (1/4 inch).

Fiberglass Pools - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[NCPoolNewbie]

Allen, are you saying the put a 4' level on each corner and look for level? Are these install guides are what the dealers are held too and if they greater then that, the install is out of spec and requires correction?

Are the install guides the standard for applying warranty issues against? ie is a Fiberglass is installed out of spec with a twist, and its developed a crack cause it is torques in N number of years, who is the hook for that? Is it common for the installer to provide the owner with a copy of the install guide and a checklist saying all items were adhered too?

 

[ajw22]

People have asked for the Installation Manual for their pools and received them.

I would think that the installers are expected to follow the specifications in the Installation Manual. If they do then the manufacture would be responsible for any warranty problems, If the installation is not to specifications that it gives the manufacture grounds to deny the warranty claim and say it is the installers responsibility.

I suggest you contact the pool manufacture and run your situation by them.

 

[vtpools]

I would think that the installers are expected to follow the specifications in the Installation Manual. If they do then the manufacture would be responsible for any warranty problems, If the installation is not to specifications that it gives the manufacture grounds to deny the warranty claim and say it is the installers responsibility.

This is pretty much how it works.

Who's the pool manufacturer and what model is it?

 

[NCPoolNewbie]

Latham Corinthian 14, reaching out to Latham to get a copy of the installation procedures now.

 

[ajw22]

Two threads about Latham pools…

New Latham fiberglass off 2 inches

Hey guys. New to forum ... install last week... low end is 2 inches below deep end.... no concrete obviously.... should I have them redo this before they get further or will a cap and things make it look better? Haven’t checked with Latham yet to make sure pool is structurally ok and still...

www.troublefreepool.com

Fiberglass Pool Level

Wanted to get some input on what people think is an acceptable amount of out of level for FG pools. I know the “industry standard” is 1” and no FG pool will be perfectly level, but we are just over an inch out of level between the two corners closest to the house. Tried to snap some pictures but...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[vtpools]

Here’s the install guide, sorry it’s a pdf I don’t know if there’s a web link.

 

[NCPoolNewbie]

Thanks, this was a very informative read, It appears to me the pool just shifted during the fill/backfill process and wasn't caught, unfortunately it has been fully filled and backfilled and I would assume the PB will be very hesitant to dig it back and out reset it. I am waiting on them to come out and look. There is also a bow (maybe 3/8") on one side and a high low high like over the other side, I wonder if the top of the shell isnt flat and will start to go down a path of asking for the QA report on the pool prior to delivery.

I will say what concerns me even more is I reached out to Latham for the instructions and the reply was they cant provide that. This really aggravated me and my response was if I as the buyer don't have a way to verify the installation for acceptance so I can be assured of warranty coverage at a future date, then what is the point of any of this, people can do just whatever the heck they want.

 

[NCPoolNewbie]

Can anyone comment on if the top of the pool prior to decking being installed is planer, ie flat. I get that a pool will be off level in the long and short axis of the horizontals, but shouldn't pools be flat?

Thanks

 

[ajw22]

Can anyone comment on if the top of the pool prior to decking being installed is planer, ie flat. I get that a pool will be off level in the long and short axis of the horizontals, but shouldn't pools be flat?

Thanks

I don;t understand what you mean by flat versus level.

 

[NCPoolNewbie]

This is a gross exaggeration but black is perimeter of top of pool, green line is level line.

Top of Pool is Flat and Level, this is the best end result, the top of a pool forms a plain so any point inside the permeator of the pool is inline with the perimeter.

Top of Pool is Flat, but pool has a small pitch and/or roll, this is what I would expect since getting a >30 ft long fiberglass pool to have no pitch is pretty hard.

The final one is how my pool is presently laying, the not only are the 4 corners out of level, but the permeator edges have noticeable bows in them, its as the pool is "wracked" and is twisted in place. To me that seems like an unacceptable end result for an installation, and that is what I am trying to understand about the fiberglass pool installs.

 

[ajw22]

I understand now. I have not dealt with that situation and my thinking is that wracking of the pool shell puts pressure on it that can lead to cracking.

Have you tried calling Latham and discussing it with them?

 

[NCPoolNewbie]

Allen, thanks for the response, at the moment I am just trying to asses if this is a proper install and if work should proceed, my intuition was it is not. The PB was here today and is working to figure out what can be done other then remove and resetting, although that is the final solution if all other approaches doesnt work.

Latham is like pulling teeth, its almost like their attitude is unless you do something to force an issue (ie sue), they dont have anything to say, at least via their email support, I need to track to find someone in a position of authority, although I am tempted to ask the PB to get someone from latham out here, at least to say if they will warranty the installation as is (I cant imagine they would) and that will be my leverage to force the PB to resolve.

 

[ajw22]

I think the pool needs to be lifted and reset on a new base.

I think earlier in this thread I posted the thread of someone else with a FG pool who needed this done.

 

[Casey]

I know if my builder was seeing this, he would lift it with no questions asked. I would expect him to. If your pool truly looks like that, it is suffering from lot of stress and that is not good for these pools. It can and will crack, especially if it's not done settling.

 

[vtpools]

I just want to preface this by saying that I think the work is unacceptable, but I want to give some insight.

Technically, your pool is within industry standards for level since if your measurements are correct the corners are within an inch (unless it has a tile border). You did mention it dips down in the middle on one side, so it's hard to say for certain. I would say from experience that Latham will be less than helpful and say it's the builder's issue.

I don't think there is any danger of stress to the shell. If it were twisted a few inches out of level I think that would be different, but within an inch is unlikely to cause any issues. As long as the fiberglass is supported (backfill/concrete), it shouldn't have problems with being under stress. It's pretty resilient. If anything it may cause spider cracks in the gelcoat, but I would be surprised if it damaged either the fiberglass or the gelcoat.

Being out of level can be hidden with tile. You can put tile around the waterline so that the tile is level, then when you put your base down and set your pavers the waterline will be level with the tile and coping.

Is there tile? What did they use for support under the tanning ledge and full-width steps?

 

[Casey]

I just want to preface this by saying that I think the work is unacceptable, but I want to give some insight.

Technically, your pool is within industry standards for level since if your measurements are correct the corners are within an inch (unless it has a tile border). You did mention it dips down in the middle on one side, so it's hard to say for certain. I would say from experience that Latham will be less than helpful and say it's the builder's issue.

I don't think there is any danger of stress to the shell. If it were twisted a few inches out of level I think that would be different, but within an inch is unlikely to cause any issues. As long as the fiberglass is supported (backfill/concrete), it shouldn't have problems with being under stress. It's pretty resilient. If anything it may cause spider cracks in the gelcoat, but I would be surprised if it damaged either the fiberglass or the gelcoat.

Being out of level can be hidden with tile. You can put tile around the waterline so that the tile is level, then when you put your base down and set your pavers the waterline will be level with the tile and coping.

Is there tile? What did they use for support under the tanning ledge and full-width steps?

My concern for OP is that it's not done settling. I'll wait for more feed back on the fill under the ledges and steps.

I'm getting privvy to watching fiberglass installs on the daily on a couple fiberglass pool groups (one which I own) and holy moly... some of these people who call themselves PBs should be taken out back n flogged and I'm being nice about it. I have seen that ledges and steps are the hardest for these builders to get right. I saw an Imagine pool built last year when my group was in its infancy and they just had 2 huge holes cut into their concrete because this small tanning ledge and step out was bowing and hollow. The woman's husband had to call off work to babysit them n make sure they used the stone the homeowner bought because they were going to use sand which is why they got in trouble the first round.

My builder blew 3/8"stone chips under mine. I showed off his work and I had builders from across the US as far away as Texas contact me to get me in touch with my builder because of how he does the "blow in" under the ledges n steps. Its rock solid. I have an Imagine builder take it straight to Imagine and was told they would start training builders to do it in the future.

 

[NCPoolNewbie]

Thanks for the additional insight, there is no tile on the waterline, we decided not do to that for astatic reasons. We are also having a CoverStar Automatic Cover installed via the PB so I have an additional set of concerns about that operating properly (ie jamming, etc).

The pool is backfilled with 1/2 stone and they also pumped a real soupy concrete under the sun ledge during the install so I know the pool is well supported, I have a feeling it was the concrete that actually lifted the one corner of the pool (this is a total guess). The only time I know for sure the pool was flat and level was after it was landed on the base and checked before the crane disconnected.

I dont think its settleing if it even ever did, the pool was landed mid dec and was filled and backfilled within 3 days and my measurements from above where taken early feburary and we have been taking corner measurements every week and the numbers all within 1/16 of the original set each time.



I will get more pictures later, its not a level issue but a "wave" issue in the shell, I am surprised they didnt shim the coverstar track so even if the pool is out a little bit, the track is plumb and level and then the paver deck etc can be run off that.

 

[vtpools]

Sorry I forgot about the autocover, the tile fix is a little harder to do with that. Hard to say if the autocover operation will be affected, I don't think it will but maybe over time it could hinder it. There's a bit of give to the brackets that hold the leading edge, and they don't have crazy tight tolerance so a little bit of variance in height and distance likely wouldn't make a difference.

There's a reason I asked about the fill under the ledge, it sounds like they used grout or flowable fill, which can absolutely move a pool if there isn't sufficient weight in it.

As far as the settling, if they used 3/8" or 1/2" crushed stone for the base and then compacted it I wouldn't expect any settling. As you said it was level on the initial set, and seemed to move after.

I'm also curious why there isn't a concrete collar around the whole pool. Looks like they got the autocover vault, generally that is done at the same time as the concrete for the rest of the pool.