Pump/filter plumbing question

vprgtsr001

Member
Jun 1, 2023
6
nj
Hello,
I have a plumbing question for the experts out there. I've recently replaced my old hayward superpump that burned out with a doheny VS pump for my in-ground pool. The old hayward pump had 1.5" in/outlet fittings. This new doheny pump has 2" fittings. Here's where things get confusing for me. The piping that is now there for the system is 1.5" so I had to put reducer bushings to size down from the 2" pump to the existing 1.5" plumbing. Upon starting the pump it seems to prime ok but it never completely fills the basket chamber. There's always air. My guess is its not drawing in enough water to complete the prime. I inspected the original plumbing further and saw this: The pool has two suction lines, one from skimmer and other from floor drain. Both are 1.5" they meet at a valve that balances/closes the suction lines then from there it goes into the pump. The piping from the valve to pump is ALSO 1.5" It looks like the fitting on the valve was 2" but the original installer put a reducing elbow and changed it to 1.5". I'm not a plumber but my common sense is telling me when you're combining two pipes of one size into a third that the third pipe should be larger than those two to handle the volume. The suction side isn't the only issue. The return side piping has also been reduced to 1.5". The filter, backwash valve, chlorinator, and pool heater are all 2" fittings that have been reduced down to 1.5" via reducing bushings/couplings with 1.5" pipe running between them. After the heater there is a final valve that T's off to both return lines back into the pool (1.5" for both).

My question is should I redo all the plumbing in the system after the first valve all the way to the last valve to 2"? Would that take care of the priming issue with the new pump? Hayward superpump was the original pump on that system from when we purchased the house 30 years ago. It would always run hot. I replaced the hayward w/ the same model about 7 years ago when the original burnt out. But both ran very hot. I switched out to a VS because I figured it would run cooler and not as hard but then this priming issue occured.
 
My question is should I redo all the plumbing in the system after the first valve all the way to the last valve to 2"?
2" to 1.5, even 2 into 1 is not an issue.
Would that take care of the priming issue with the new pump?
No
Hayward superpump was the original pump on that system from when we purchased the house 30 years ago. It would always run hot. I replaced the hayward w/ the same model about 7 years ago when the original burnt out. But both ran very hot. I switched out to a VS because I figured it would run cooler and not as hard but then this priming issue occured.
In your replacement, there is a suction side leak.

Can you post a couple pictures of the entire pad so that we can see all the equipment, valves, inputs and outputs.
 
2" to 1.5, even 2 into 1 is not an issue.

No

In your replacement, there is a suction side leak.

Can you post a couple pictures of the entire pad so that we can see all the equipment, valves, inputs and outputs.

Suction side leak was the first thing that came to mind. I made sure all fittings were as tight as possible even tried wrapping a wet towel and pouring water on them but I don't notice any air getting in. I don't think its a cracked pipe underground on suction side either as there was no air issues with the old pump.

edit: I will definitely post pictures tomorrow when I have daylight.

I didn't mention it in my OP but the pool is roughly 45000 gallons.
 
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Upon starting the pump it seems to prime ok but it never completely fills the basket chamber.
Tell me the exact priming sequence, RPM, duration.
Is the air there immediately after priming?
How big is the bubble. Does it grow and the pump ultimately looses prime?
If you turn it off, does it lose prime?
 
Tell me the exact priming sequence, RPM, duration.
Is the air there immediately after priming?
How big is the bubble. Does it grow and the pump ultimately looses prime?
If you turn it off, does it lose prime?

When the new pump is turned on it ramps up to 3200 rpm for 300 seconds (5mins) there's a timer on the digital display.
There is water in basket and it immediately pulls water from the suction lines. I tried to snap a picture for you right now but because of the dark and fog on the cap you cant see the water level very well.
It fills the basket to about the level in my drawing and thats as high as it gets. No higher. At times its just above the inlet hole.
If the pump is turned off yes it loses its prime.
For this new pump because it sits much higher than the old one I had to add a 90 elbow directly to the discharge port. Would that effect priming?
pump.jpg
 
Thank you REALLY helpful, ruled out a couple scenarios.

90 is not your issues. Suction side leak, likely induced by the replumb of the new filter. We'll help you figure it out. Post pics.
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Here are photos I took tonight. There's no water leaking, it poured today so everything is wet. I rechecked both couplers on suction side to confirm there's no air and both gaskets are good and there's a secure connection. Everything is original except for the new fittings by the pump (bright white) and the section I marked with a purple line. I added that so i could bypass the filter and vacuum to waste since our filter valve doesn't have that feature. An interesting thing happened tonight. When I backwashed the filter tonight the pump primed fully and when I switched it back to filter it maintained prime and pumped perfectly. I shut the pump off and it maintained prime. When I opened the basket lid it lost prime (obviously). When I turned it back on it never reached full prime. I don't know if these new details help trouble shoot this issue.
 

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When I opened the basket lid it lost prime (obviously). When I turned it back on it never reached full prime.
Juicy tidbit.

Remove and inspect for cracks (gently bend the o-ring and look for cracks).
1) pump lid o-ring
2) Pump drains

Replace if cracks are present. If not, clean (just a rag) re-lube with silicone LUBRICANT (not sealant), like magic lube II, reassemble and try again.

If that doesn't work, I would rebuild this valve. Just search for "jandy neverlub o-rings"
1685753847125.png

I would also take this union apart and inspect the o-ring...same exercise as pump o-rings. Inspect, clean lubricate.
1685753874339.png
 
I took apart the valve and the union and everything was fine w both. I re-lubed the valve rings and gaskets last season and they still had silicone grease on them. It was still losing prime especially when I would lower rpm down to 2400-2800 or less. Running at 3500 rpm it would maintain prime like ~90%. There was still some air in basket. Also as soon as i shut the gate to either skimmer or floor it would lose prime. I went ahead and replaced the 1.5" piping on the suction side to all 2". Using my barrel cutting bit on dremmel to get old pvc fitting off the valve wasn't fun but I got it done. The 1.5" pipe was definitely the issue. It primes 1000% now. There isnt even 1 micro bubble in the basket. Aside from debris swirling around you can't even tell its running I can even drop it down to 1000 rpm and its running perfectly. I also now have 2x the suction in the skimmer w/ the valve open full between floor and skimmer and when i turn the floor drain off now water leaves the skimmer so fast it will suck air within 10 seconds even w the pool overfilled. So the problem was water volume bottle necking at the valve with its 1.5" output tubing. At some point now I plan to redo all the 1.5" tubing on the return side to 2" to increase gpm through the system and reduce load on the pump.
 

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