Pros and Cons of Sand vs Cartridge Filters???

[domct203]

So why can't I keep the pollen off the bottom of my pool??? I clean the filter when I put it in...I clean it two or three times per summer. I don't know why I can't keep the bottom clean. I vacuum it up...Clogs up a skimmer sock...and then two hours later...all over the bottom of the pool again. And I repeat...you could drink my pool water.

Chlorine is always between 4-7 ppm
CYA is kept at 40 ppm
pH is 7.3-7.6
Alk is 90 to 110 ppm

ALWAYS. I test the crud out of my water.

Can the pool pass an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test?

Are you 100% certain these are the proper sized cartridges and there is no physical damage to the system?

Pollen should eventually slow down during the season, and any type of properly working filter should be able to clear it.

 

[Catanzaro]

Can you take a picture of what you are referring to? For starters, I only have heavy pollen in the spring. Secondly, the skimmer socks, if you have excellent pull from your skimmers will absorb and pick up everything off the surface (bottom) line. Once this is picked up and you dump it, the pollen is gone. I really believe you are dealing with other debris blowing into your pool and as the filter shuts off, the debris, which could include a little bit of pollen settles to the floor.

I have a friend who had a pool (sold house) in where the floor was always a mess. A lot of debris settled to the floor. Turned out that it was a ton of dust, pollen and other debris from trees, grass flying into the pool at all times. In addition, the poor circulation led to floating dead algae on the floor that looked like pollen, but in fact was dead algae. Now, that I look at your signature and see that you have an above ground pool, the true culprit here may be circulation.

You have quite a large pool and am assuming you have one return and one wide mouth skimmer. Please upload some pictures to see what you are working with.

 

[cubbybeave08]

Can the pool pass an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test?

Are you 100% certain these are the proper sized cartridges and there is no physical damage to the system?

Pollen should eventually slow down during the season, and any type of properly working filter should be able to clear it.

My filter has one cartridge...it sits on the center. water comes in at the bottom left from the pump...and out on the bottom left back to the pool. I believe it is a Hayward 175. I have a neighbor who used to have a beautiful yard full of flowering trees, and flowers...now it is just weeds. I have five pine trees all around my yard and a huge probably 100 year old maple tree to the north and west of my pool. No trees to the east...or much to the south. But the west and north is a mess of trees and as I said out of control weeds. We get yellow film on our car windows all summer, and it's just nasty...plus I live in the arm pit of the midwest...just south of steel city Gary Indiana where the pollution is horrible.

Maybe I should down size my pump and run on low all night. I do not use the standard return directional thingy...I actually have plumbed into it a directional elbow of PVC that allows me to set circulation either clockwise or counter clock wise on the surface on under the surface...And yet...still the pollen.

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Can the pool pass an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test?
Yes...it passes all the time...I do it at least twice a month from May to September

Are you 100% certain these are the proper sized cartridges and there is no physical damage to the system?
Yes...it is what came with the pool and it is what the owners manual says I should have.

Pollen should eventually slow down during the season, and any type of properly working filter should be able to clear it.

For what ever reason we have pollen and dust on our car windows and glass patio table all spring and summer long. We have to wash the patio table every few days or it gets a yellowish film on it.

I can guarantee, that my pool water is always up to Trouble Free Standards...and I know what I am doing with water chemistry.

 

[Catanzaro]

Maybe I should down size my pump and run on low all night.

You can run on low during off hours, but recommend running normally for at least a certain amount of time to create some turnover. Usually 4-6 hours is fine on full and the remaining on low speed. Maybe a variable speed pump is in your best interest.

For what ever reason we have pollen and dust on our car windows and glass patio table all spring and summer long. We have to wash the patio table every few days or it gets a yellowish film on it

It appears that most of your settling is from environmental factors, along with some pollen. I would bet that the pollution where you are is contributing to at least 90% of all your issues.

 

[cubbybeave08]

This is the filter and pump...simple plumbing, nothing special.

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You can run on low during off hours, but recommend running normally for at least a certain amount of time to create some turnover. Usually 4-6 hours is fine on full and the remaining on low speed. Maybe a variable speed pump is in your best interest.



It appears that most of your settling is from environment factors, along with some pollen. I would bet that the pollution where you are is contributing to at least 90% of all your issues.

I run the 2 HP 12 hours a day from May until September then 6 hours a day until I close.
Can you imagine what our lungs look like?

 

[needsajet]

Just a couple thoughts... the air is bled out of the filter after cleaning, right?

As far as water circulation pattern, strong spin in a round pool often causes the surface debris, as it saturates with water, to drop in the middle of the pool. Lots of people like this because it's quick to vacuum (most sunken debris at the bottom in the middle of the pool). Have you ever tried pushing the water straight out, or straight out and slightly down? This might get the water tumbling a bit more, and more stuff headed for the skimmer? You can watch the small stuff on the surface and see where it's going, and whether or not it's getting to the skimmer. Just something to try cause if your filter is fitting and seated properly and the water is algae free, you shouldn't be having this much trouble! Frustrating!

 

[cubbybeave08]

Just a couple thoughts... the air is bled out of the filter after cleaning, right?

As far as water circulation pattern, strong spin in a round pool often causes the surface debris, as it saturates with water, to drop in the middle of the pool. Lots of people like this because it's quick to vacuum (most sunken debris at the bottom in the middle of the pool). Have you ever tried pushing the water straight out, or straight out and slightly down? This might get the water tumbling a bit more, and more stuff headed for the skimmer? You can watch the small stuff on the surface and see where it's going, and whether or not it's getting to the skimmer. Just something to try cause if your filter is fitting and seated properly and the water is algae free, you shouldn't be having this much trouble! Frustrating!

Yes...air is bled...and pump re-pressurized after cleaning. But I have always circulated in a circular fashion usually not at the surface but just below or at a 45 degree angle. So what you are saying is to leave the directional eye in and point it downward and outward instead of keeping a circular flow going. I will try that in the spring when I open the book back up. Thanks for the suggestion. Because that is exactly what happens. The circulation spins and the pollen/dirt drops to the floor but it is usually right in the middle in a large circle maybe 8 feet in diameter...and while it is easy to vacuum up...it also is very concentrated right there and maybe too much going into the filter all at once, because instead of getting filtered, it is getting spun and dropped like a large whirlpool effect. Sucking it down to the bottom.

 

[needsajet]

Just something worth trying, yep.

One clarification though... the filter shouldn't be bothered by a lot of stuff going to the filter all at once; it's well mixed with plenty of water. Some of the particles smaller than what the filter can catch will get by until the filter is a bit dirty, and then it will start catching a bit more smaller stuff. But to me, visible clouds getting past the filter points to contamination on the seating surfaces or pinholes in the pleats, which will let a lot of stuff past, both small and larger. Is there any chance the cartridge is not fully pushed into the seats? Like maybe an after-market cartridge that isn't fitting properly. Just grasping at straws, I suppose!

 

[mtbarr64]

DE is best. Sand with some DE is a very close second. Cartridges just can't get the superfine stuff.

Had and experienced all three, so my rating is based on knowing them all.

 

[cubbybeave08]

Just something worth trying, yep.

One clarification though... the filter shouldn't be bothered by a lot of stuff going to the filter all at once; it's well mixed with plenty of water. Some of the particles smaller than what the filter can catch will get by until the filter is a bit dirty, and then it will start catching a bit more smaller stuff. But to me, visible clouds getting past the filter points to contamination on the seating surfaces or pinholes in the pleats, which will let a lot of stuff past, both small and larger. Is there any chance the cartridge is not fully pushed into the seats? Like maybe an after-market cartridge that isn't fitting properly. Just grasping at straws, I suppose!

Seems to be seated properly...However, maybe I need to clean it more frequently...I clean maybe three times a summer. But maybe that needs to happen more than maybe once per month...like once every couple of weeks?

 

[domct203]

Is there a pressure gauge on the filter? The general recommendation is to clean the filters when the pressure rises 20-25% over the freshly cleaned pressure, eg if the pressure right after installing freshly cleaned carts is 20psi, you should clean when the pressure reaches 24-25psi.

 

[cubbybeave08]

Is there a pressure gauge on the filter? The general recommendation is to clean the filters when the pressure rises 20-25% over the freshly cleaned pressure, eg if the pressure right after installing freshly cleaned carts is 20psi, you should clean when the pressure reaches 24-25psi.

Haven't used one in years. Been broken...I know my pool, but had always cleaned it when it got to about 25 psi as the recommendation from pool guy who installed pool...over the past few years it's been once a month as that is what the gauge always told me. I just bought two from TFP...I am hoping I have better luck with these. The ones I got from the pool store never even lasted a season.

Anyway, I am going to stick with the cart, but I am going to change the flow of my return to go straight across as someone suggested...Because with 2 HP pumping water in a circle, I do get the debris in the middle of the pool. I will see how that works. Report back in the spring when I open the pool up.

 

[rcy]

Your original post shows you've had a cartridge filter for 8 or 9 years. Have you ever changed the cartridge? That might be the first place to start. Even with regular cleaning, eventually the cartridge just gets too much debris embedded in the media and needs to be replaced (or you have a tear or other damage somewhere in the cartridge or damage otherwise to the filter). That's where the pressure gauge is invaluable. With a new cartridge your pressure is XX psi. When the pressure rises a specific amount, you clean the cartridge. Eventually, even after cleaning, you'll see your pressure will be higher than the original XX psi that you had with a brand new cartridge. When you reach a certain psi over the new cartridge psi even after cleaning the cartridge, it's time for a new cartridge.

I switched from sand (after 10 seasons) to cartridge last year and my water is much clearer. With the sand filter, the water was clean, but at night with the lights on, I could see things in the water (small things..dust, pollen, hair..I dunno). With the cartridge filter, my water is very clear and at night with the lights on, I don't see anything floating about. I might just have needed new sand (though a cartridge DOES filter better than even a sand filter with new sand) but I like not having to backwash as well.

As many have posted, a sand filter doesn't actually filter as small a particle as a cartridge, so switching to sand will probably not help you with the pollen problem.

 

[rcy]

DE is best. Sand with some DE is a very close second. Cartridges just can't get the superfine stuff.

Had and experienced all three, so my rating is based on knowing them all.

Sand typically removes down to 20-40 micron-sized dirt and debris.

Cartridge is 10-15 microns.

I've used both sand and cartridge and my experience is the opposite of yours.

 

[cubbybeave08]

Your original post shows you've had a cartridge filter for 8 or 9 years. Have you ever changed the cartridge? That might be the first place to start. Even with regular cleaning, eventually the cartridge just gets too much debris embedded in the media and needs to be replaced (or you have a tear or other damage somewhere in the cartridge or damage otherwise to the filter). That's where the pressure gauge is invaluable. With a new cartridge your pressure is XX psi. When the pressure rises a specific amount, you clean the cartridge. Eventually, even after cleaning, you'll see your pressure will be higher than the original XX psi that you had with a brand new cartridge. When you reach a certain psi over the new cartridge psi even after cleaning the cartridge, it's time for a new cartridge.

I switched from sand (after 10 seasons) to cartridge last year and my water is much clearer. With the sand filter, the water was clean, but at night with the lights on, I could see things in the water (small things..dust, pollen, hair..I dunno). With the cartridge filter, my water is very clear and at night with the lights on, I don't see anything floating about. I might just have needed new sand (though a cartridge DOES filter better than even a sand filter with new sand) but I like not having to backwash as well.

As many have posted, a sand filter doesn't actually filter as small a particle as a cartridge, so switching to sand will probably not help you with the pollen problem.

I am on my second or third cartridge...I have had my pool for 8 or 9 years. But I have changed it out about every three or four years.

 

[cubbybeave08]

Haven't used one in years. Been broken...I know my pool, but had always cleaned it when it got to about 25 psi as the recommendation from pool guy who installed pool...over the past few years it's been once a month as that is what the gauge always told me. I just bought two from TFP...I am hoping I have better luck with these. The ones I got from the pool store never even lasted a season.

Anyway, I am going to stick with the cart, but I am going to change the flow of my return to go straight across as someone suggested...Because with 2 HP pumping water in a circle, I do get the debris in the middle of the pool. I will see how that works. Report back in the spring when I open the pool up.

Brand new filter cart...and brand new pressure gauge and it is running at 16 psi. Pool is cleaning up great. I opened and because of issues with my filter, I did not get started on filling and pumping and filtering for about two weeks. My water turned the color of swamp. Same texture too. Started filtering last weekend and the return jet pumping water straight out...seems to be turning the water over better as it is filtering the cloudiness out pretty fast.