Prep: Leveling by build up. Use sand?

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No worries I don't feel critiqued you got good advise from somebody with way more knowledge than I have on the subject. I glad you were able to get it as it should be a very durable solution to your problem. My goal is to see you end up with a safe pool that looks good and you can enjoy for years to come. If somehow I helped you get there I'm happy regardless the ending solution.

The foam you are looking for is HERE. Either the 1/2" or 1" thick foam is plenty for the pool. It won't compress and from what I've seen people love how it feels under a liner. There are a number of threads showing how to go about installing the foam. The one T.heck linked to was very recent and that guy did a great job getting the site prepped right.
 
So, I realize that this is not a construction forum, but I looked for one and many were for professionals only and the one I found was for DIYers and they were giving advice I knew was not good (didn't have an understanding of the importance of the high water weight). So, I'll ask here since there are so many knowledgeable people on this forum.

I decided that the road-base-with-cement-top-layer would be a mess and look bad.

We also remeasured the yard, tree, tree roots and found the level (only 9.5' diff in elevation), so we can make a "sandbox" a bit larger to accommodate a 1.5xwall-height of clearance around pool but only if we have a wall that is 6-7" wide. SO I am trying to figure out the strongest material for a 6-7" wall. (Besides poured concrete)

Also, my husband said it's not realistic to try to build something that could be removed when we move or our kids go to college. It would just be used as a patio. So now I am not against something more permanent (e.g. a mortared stone wall) and have accepted that the cost of whatever we do will be higher.

So, I am taking 3 bids, including from a landscaping guy who does most any material, including segmental retaining wall (SRW) masonry blocks (e.g. Pavestone), and another from a guy who does mortared stone, either limestone or oklahoma stone. I've kind of ruled out lumbar/timber/RR ties for not being as strong.

So, my new questions are:
1) Any idea what material is strongest? I spent quite a bit of time googling but they only ranked retaining wall materials by durability. I did read that wood/timber/RRties are not as strong, but couldn't find out if SRW blocks/Pavestone vs mortared real stone is stronger. The only indicator is that SRW are meant for low walls, but I'm not about mortared stone.

For Pavestone, I like this one, "RockWall":
Pavestone RockWall 17.5 in. x 7 in. x 6 in. Palomino Concrete Retaining Wall Block-79881 - The Home Depot
but it does have cavities (maybe fill in with roadbase material?)

Also, I haven't found the geotextile product for Pavestone. But does Geotex work for roadbase? Isn't it meant more to add strenth to soil?

2) Is mortared stone a bad idea?
I know it is more expensive, but I need the strongest material (and it is more attractive to me - not crazy about the SRW/Pavestone)

I read that you have to be careful of water accumulating behind it, but
a) I also read to make fill as high as wall so rain water will spill over wall and not accumulate inside wall
b) I was also thinking that a reason for using road base (crushed limestone screenings to dust) besides being stable and holding the weight is because it is more impermeable to water...?

I also read that mortared stone it can shift and mortar crack.
On the other hand, I think the SRW units (concrete retaining wall blocks like Pavestone) can shift without being as unsightly and also allow for water drainage...?

3) I read online that limestone is very susceptible from staining from other liquids. I am thinking it would not be a good material. I hope to have a saltwater pool, but am thinking either saltwater or chlorine splashout/footprints would not be good for limestone. i hope it would be ok for Oklahoma stone.

Anyone have experience/thoughts on any of this? I don't want to have a stone mason come out if having mortared stone is not a good idea.

Thanks for any help!

Nina
 
duraleigh said:
When you level with that much sand, it displays some "liquid" characteristics and you'll have a problem keeping it all under the pool in a heavy rain....it'll wash.

Pea gravel is a better choice. "Fines" is the best choice. It's mostly pea gravel but with some dust in there and will compact very nicely. The quarry near you may call it something else.
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duraleigh said:
#2. 3/8 screenings is the ticket. "Fines" was all I could think of but "screenings" are the same thing.....it's pretty user friendly.

Foam board on that if you want to but the screenings compact into a smooth surface.
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Ugh. Okay, I'm confused on the base/fill.

As I reported above, I found a source that had
"3/8" screenings fine-to-dust crushed limestone" (really fine, finest)
Crushed rock with sharp edges

But when I called back and spoke to someone else (who I think is more knowledgeable), he called it Road Base. He was also concerned that it was too sharp and would tear the bottom of the pool. I am planning to use Pink Panther foam board but though we would use it only under the round pool (bad idea?). Since I'll probably build a square base for a round pool, my kids may step on the base/fill at the corners - is it going to hurt their feet?

Images of Road Base online vary, so I can't see what it looks like.

I am now taking bids that include materials, so i can't dictate that original source. So, I need a universal term / description to use for the fill/base.

Looking at this forum, I've also seen mention of
Crusher
and
Paver Base

So, is there a more definitive description of what material should be used? and is it the same as Road Base? Crusher? Paver Base?

Thanks so much!

Happy 4th!

Nina
 
I bet road base is probably fill sand, good for filling. Concrete sand is in between with less sharp edges and way less organics. Mason sand is the cat's meow and is screened fine sand.

With me hauling prices were

Fill $18 yard
Concrete $28
Mason $34

I don't think any kind of sand would be bad on the ground for feet, have a sharp rock, pick it up and toss it.
 
cfherrman said:
I bet road base is probably fill sand, good for filling. Concrete sand is in between with less sharp edges and way less organics. Mason sand is the cat's meow and is screened fine sand.

With me hauling prices were

Fill $18 yard
Concrete $28
Mason $34

I don't think any kind of sand would be bad on the ground for feet, have a sharp rock, pick it up and toss it.
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Thanks for your response. I was following up with the folks who explained to me why compacted gravel with fines/screening is the way to go, not sand. (e.g. "When you level with that much sand, it displays some "liquid" characteristics and you'll have a problem keeping it all under the pool in a heavy rain....it'll wash.") I am using it inside a retaining wall and placing 27,000 lbs of water on it. The Intex pool I got said not to use sand, either. So I'd like to hear from that faction before I switch direction and go with sand. Thank you for the sand info, though.

Thanks,
Nina
 
You should be looking for extruded polystyrene foam sheets or XPS. The Home Depot in our area carries Dow's Formular 150 and 250. One is 15psi and the other is 25 psi. Side by side, the 250 (or 25psi) seemed harder to "dent" and thicker seemed to be better for denting although the cost is higher. Thicker also insulates from ground more (R5 per inch) but not sure how much that helps retain heat given sides are not insulated.
 
If you are not doing the work yourself and hiring it out.. Then why not dig down? That 1 tree the pool is near should not effect things to badly and may have to trim a few roots.. Or do a combination of both dig down part way and bring the other side up a few inches.. Way easier and probably cheaper
 
MN-CJ said:
You should be looking for extruded polystyrene foam sheets or XPS. The Home Depot in our area carries Dow's Formular 150 and 250. One is 15psi and the other is 25 psi. Side by side, the 250 (or 25psi) seemed harder to "dent" and thicker seemed to be better for denting although the cost is higher. Thicker also insulates from ground more (R5 per inch) but not sure how much that helps retain heat given sides are not insulated.
Click to expand...

A pool guy I spoke to said "[FONT=.SFUIText]4x8 sheets of pink panther insulation board[/FONT]" and a post above recommended this, which I think is the same as above: Owens Corning FOAMULAR 1/2 in. x 4 ft. x 8 ft. R-3 Squared Edge Insulating Sheathing-36L - The Home Depot

Is this different from what you are suggesting? Formular vs Foamular?
 
Zrock said:
If you are not doing the work yourself and hiring it out.. Then why not dig down? That 1 tree the pool is near should not effect things to badly and may have to trim a few roots.. Or do a combination of both dig down part way and bring the other side up a few inches.. Way easier and probably cheaper
Click to expand...

Thanks for your suggestion.

When I last looked I thought the roots were an issue but I'll check again when I get home from vacation tomorrow. I also need to check that the sprinkler pipes are deeper than 8-9". What appeals to me more is splitting the difference between digging out (4" dig) and building up (4" retaining wall).

However, I would only have 6" between the pool and the soil wall on the uphill dug-out side. Doesn't that soil need to be supported by a retaining wall? Otherwise it just runs downhill in a heavy rain? So wouldn't the wall construction cost be nearly the same?

Money would be saved on the fill material and on the labor of filling and compacting, but what about digging costs? It would have to hand shoveled - can't fit machinery through the gate.

Thanks,
Nina
 

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