Prehistoric Pool Gets Major Remodel in NorCal!
- Thread starter PrehistoricPool
- Start date
Kim, Dirk, Riley & Poolguy, thanks for your comments. It is reassuring.
The pool is moving along at last. Tile and coping is on:
I was not able to find a photo of the Casablanca waterline tile with the deco and field tiles alternating when I was thinking of this, so may this photo will help someone else trying to decide.
Here is a photo of what the tile and coping look like with the plaster sample:
The pool is suddenly coming together so fast that the pool builder told me he is going to plaster tomorrow (Thursday)! Then polish the pebble Friday, so I guess I am filling pool Friday night or Saturday! Wow, I was starting to think I'd never get here. Now I need to cram on Pool School quick! I need to order a test kit! I am having a pool service do the start-up, but they probably won't be here until Monday. Stress!
The pool is moving along at last. Tile and coping is on:
I was not able to find a photo of the Casablanca waterline tile with the deco and field tiles alternating when I was thinking of this, so may this photo will help someone else trying to decide.
Here is a photo of what the tile and coping look like with the plaster sample:
The pool is suddenly coming together so fast that the pool builder told me he is going to plaster tomorrow (Thursday)! Then polish the pebble Friday, so I guess I am filling pool Friday night or Saturday! Wow, I was starting to think I'd never get here. Now I need to cram on Pool School quick! I need to order a test kit! I am having a pool service do the start-up, but they probably won't be here until Monday. Stress!
Attachments
Just like that it is all coming together quickly! The tile looks great in that alternating pattern. Now go and cram in as much pool school as you can!
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,677
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
What do you think the pool service is going to do for you for your start up that you don’t think you can do yourself? I hired a guy to do my startup, then fired him on day one, because I realized he couldn’t test the water any better than I could. Test, dose, brush. That’s about all there is to it. And you’ll know it gets done right. And you’ll know no one will dump in any unneeded chemicals. TFP can guide you... something to consider. I’m sure glad I did mine myself...
- - - Updated - - -
Did I give you the water meter tip?
- - - Updated - - -
Did I give you the water meter tip?
SO pretty!!!! Love it!
I am going to share a set of links I put together for new pool owners. You will be kind of new in that you are still learning the TFP way:
Print these out:
Pool School - Basic Pool Care Schedule
Pool School - Recommended Levels
Bookmark these:
Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals
Pool Math
Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
Make sure to ask any and all questions you might have no matter how small! We have all been where you are at one point.
Now get on the phone and order that test kit!
Once more thing. Here is a good plaster start up: Start-up Cards - National Plasterers Council The back side is what you want.
NO one will use the care you use to start up your pool and care for your new plaster. The first few weeks are the most important!
Kim
I am going to share a set of links I put together for new pool owners. You will be kind of new in that you are still learning the TFP way:
Print these out:
Pool School - Basic Pool Care Schedule
Pool School - Recommended Levels
Bookmark these:
Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals
Pool Math
Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
Make sure to ask any and all questions you might have no matter how small! We have all been where you are at one point.
Now get on the phone and order that test kit!
Once more thing. Here is a good plaster start up: Start-up Cards - National Plasterers Council The back side is what you want.
NO one will use the care you use to start up your pool and care for your new plaster. The first few weeks are the most important!
Kim
Love how well your tile and coping go together. I also like that you've stuck to your guns with a classic look. It stands out for being stylish and not like what everyone else is doing these days. (Including me!)
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,677
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Just before you or the PB starts the fill, go find your water meter (out by the street somewhere) and take a snap shot of it. Start your fill. Use as little water in the house as possible: no laundry or dishwasher, limit showers if you can, turn off any irrigation timers, etc. Once you finish your fill, go out and take another snap shot of the meter. Using the two numbers you captured from the meter, you can calculate the water volume of the pool, and that'll be very helpful for adding chemicals, etc. It'll be a much more accurate number than trying to do the math from dimensions.
Tip: Mark the intended water level with a piece of good tape, so that when the pool gets full you'll have an easy time of knowing exactly when to shut the water off.
SO pretty!!!! Love it!
NO one will use the care you use to start up your pool and care for your new plaster. The first few weeks are the most important!
Kim
Thanks, Kim! Kind of overwhelming. I am essentially a new owner. We have been in this house for over 10 years and pool was here before us, but I have always let the pool service handle it. Pool is to start filling tomorrow, may take more than 24 hours to fill. Pool builder estimated 40 hours based on estimated 25,000 gallons. That means it may not be full until sometime Sunday. I am using the pool service for start-up, but plan to take over from them once everything is stable and I have more confidence. Pool service doesn't work on Sunday. They say it will be fine to start on Monday. I am nervous about this. The start-up card you linked to says filter should run immediately on filling and balance chemicals first day. So I may need to do the initial balancing myself. Not sure if it is better to fill slow so its not full until Monday, or fill fast with two or three hoses and tackle initial balancing myself.
First challenge: what test kit should I get? Prefer to get on Amazon so I can get next day delivery. Any recommendations? Link to Amazon?
Dirk, thanks for tip on meter. I will try this, but its going to be hard to not shower if it takes 40 hours to fill!
LeighHop and Riley, thanks! I am definitely swimming against the stream on my design choices. I have seen a lot of modern pools that look great, with other people's houses. But my house is nearing its 100th birthday, and modern just didn't feel right. So I like to think of the look I am going for as "timeless" rather than "dated." Time will tell if I achieve that.
Things are moving fast now. Here is the scratch coat plaster going on:
LeighHop and Riley, thanks! I am definitely swimming against the stream on my design choices. I have seen a lot of modern pools that look great, with other people's houses. But my house is nearing its 100th birthday, and modern just didn't feel right. So I like to think of the look I am going for as "timeless" rather than "dated." Time will tell if I achieve that.
Things are moving fast now. Here is the scratch coat plaster going on:
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,677
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Fill as fast as possible, better for new finish. DO NOT STOP OR SLOW THE FILL FOR ANY REASON! Yes, I was shouting. You can create a permanent ring by stopping a fill.
You can shower and use the toilets and sinks, you’ll still get a good number. If you’re determined, you can count showers and flushes, then subtract each from the total. About 30 gals for a shower, and a couple for each flush. You can see, out of 25K gals it’s not going to make a big difference either way. Sprinklers and washing machines are the big water hogs...
I can relate about managing a startup as a newbie. I was, too. And pretty intimidated. But it was more important to me to get it right, so I muscled through. I followed that same start up card, and I made sure my pump was running. Chlorine doesn’t go in for a few days, so you’re OK there waiting. But if it was my pool, I’d test and dose to maintain a good pH, which is important for new plaster. The pH test is the easiest of all. You can do it. Then, using your super accurate water volume number and PoolMath, you’ll be able to add Muriatic acid as needed. Brush the surface well, several times a day. That’s it.
Check in here for any extra help or questions, we got yer back!
You can shower and use the toilets and sinks, you’ll still get a good number. If you’re determined, you can count showers and flushes, then subtract each from the total. About 30 gals for a shower, and a couple for each flush. You can see, out of 25K gals it’s not going to make a big difference either way. Sprinklers and washing machines are the big water hogs...
I can relate about managing a startup as a newbie. I was, too. And pretty intimidated. But it was more important to me to get it right, so I muscled through. I followed that same start up card, and I made sure my pump was running. Chlorine doesn’t go in for a few days, so you’re OK there waiting. But if it was my pool, I’d test and dose to maintain a good pH, which is important for new plaster. The pH test is the easiest of all. You can do it. Then, using your super accurate water volume number and PoolMath, you’ll be able to add Muriatic acid as needed. Brush the surface well, several times a day. That’s it.
Check in here for any extra help or questions, we got yer back!
Getting so close! We did the water metre thing. Just deduct how ever much google says a shower user or a toilet flush. I kept a little tally but really it won’t make much of a difference to the reading. I agree about the pool needing to fit the house. We built ours to fit in with our yard and used beige/neutral colours that I wouldn’t use if it was in a more modern/different setting. I think your choices are perfect. They fit the pool and house well and won’t be out of fashion in 5 years.
Test kit from Amazon- Taylor 2006C https://www.amazon.com/Taylor-Service-Complete-Water-K-2006C/dp/B0002IXIJ0/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1528413433&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=taylor+2006+test+kit&psc=1 BUT it will not get there until next week (Wed) 
Here is a much better option: Water Testing - TFTestkit TF-100 Seven Test Kit - TF-100 They are closer to you.
SO since you will not have the good test kit right away you can get a "baby" test kit from Wal-mart like this one: Swimming Pool Water Test Kit for Chlorine, Bromine and PH - Walmart.com The only real usable part of it is the PH test BUT that is the important one for new plaster.
Kim
Here is a much better option: Water Testing - TFTestkit TF-100 Seven Test Kit - TF-100 They are closer to you.SO since you will not have the good test kit right away you can get a "baby" test kit from Wal-mart like this one: Swimming Pool Water Test Kit for Chlorine, Bromine and PH - Walmart.com The only real usable part of it is the PH test
BUT that is the important one for new plaster.Kim
Thanks Kim! That is very reassuring. I went to Walmart this morning and got a cheap test kit. Also picked up muriatic acid and baking soda to balance the PH. Pool is still filling, but it is almost there:
It will be full this evening, but too late for pool service to come out. Pool builder stopped by today and said he would come back tomorrow for start-up. This is really nice of him because start-up was not part of the contract and tomorrow is Sunday. He says the calcium level is really important and he will bring something to adjust that.
Questions:
1. Start up card says filtration system should be started immediately when fill water reaches middle of the skimmer. Both pool builder and pool service say Monday is OK (it is now Saturday afternoon, in case someone comes across this thread in the future). Pool builder is coming out tomorrow anyway. Is it OK to wait until the morning to start filtration system? I am sort of worried about not turning a valve or something, running pump dry and burning it out. Or something like that. I would prefer him to be here to show me how everything works.
2. The start-up card also says "“Although optional, it is highly recommended to pre-dilute and add a quality sequestering agent.” What is a sequestering agent? What are some brand names? Is this something that could wait until Monday? Or do I need to look for it this weekend?
3. If I don't start the pump tonight, should I brush plaster? Or wait until pump and filter are running?
Thanks!
It will be full this evening, but too late for pool service to come out. Pool builder stopped by today and said he would come back tomorrow for start-up. This is really nice of him because start-up was not part of the contract and tomorrow is Sunday. He says the calcium level is really important and he will bring something to adjust that.
Questions:
1. Start up card says filtration system should be started immediately when fill water reaches middle of the skimmer. Both pool builder and pool service say Monday is OK (it is now Saturday afternoon, in case someone comes across this thread in the future). Pool builder is coming out tomorrow anyway. Is it OK to wait until the morning to start filtration system? I am sort of worried about not turning a valve or something, running pump dry and burning it out. Or something like that. I would prefer him to be here to show me how everything works.
2. The start-up card also says "“Although optional, it is highly recommended to pre-dilute and add a quality sequestering agent.” What is a sequestering agent? What are some brand names? Is this something that could wait until Monday? Or do I need to look for it this weekend?
3. If I don't start the pump tonight, should I brush plaster? Or wait until pump and filter are running?
Thanks!
I’d guess they’re telling you Monday because the don’t want to work on the weekend. You should start filtration as soon as the pool is full to the skimmers, if you can. Figure out your valves; it should be pretty obvious.
The hard part may be priming the pump for the first time with all that air in the pipes. My Intelliflo “self-priming” pump did not. My builder attached a female-to-female adapter to the hose bibb above the pump, attached a garden hose, and got water into the pump that way.
The hard part may be priming the pump for the first time with all that air in the pipes. My Intelliflo “self-priming” pump did not. My builder attached a female-to-female adapter to the hose bibb above the pump, attached a garden hose, and got water into the pump that way.
A sequestering agent, or sequestrant, is a chemical substance containing molecules able to bond with metal ions to form chelate complexes. ... As metal can work its way into swimming pool water from a variety of sources, applying a sequestering agent to treat excess metals in the pool water is a common practice. There are several different ones. Please ask your PB what kind HE wants you to use as he holds the warranty to your pool. I don't want to tell you something he will not agree with.
It is okay for the pool to sit over night until the pump it turned on. There are several pools that have to wait even a couple of days. NOT the best but not the end of the world. Just do NOT stop the water from filling until it is at least half way up the waterline tile.
Bleach/chlorine-Get about 5 gallons. You are going to need it. Make sure it is PLAIN blech-no pretty smells, splash less, or chloriamax. At Walmart it may be by the pool stuff and called "Pool Shock". It should be 10%.
Do you happen to have a submersible pump? You can always throw that in the pool to move the water around.
Brushing-you can brush once the pump starts up. I am worried about the dust coming off and settling on the bottom of the pool if the equipment is not up and running.
Kim
It is okay for the pool to sit over night until the pump it turned on. There are several pools that have to wait even a couple of days. NOT the best but not the end of the world. Just do NOT stop the water from filling until it is at least half way up the waterline tile.
Bleach/chlorine-Get about 5 gallons. You are going to need it. Make sure it is PLAIN blech-no pretty smells, splash less, or chloriamax. At Walmart it may be by the pool stuff and called "Pool Shock". It should be 10%.
Do you happen to have a submersible pump? You can always throw that in the pool to move the water around.
Brushing-you can brush once the pump starts up. I am worried about the dust coming off and settling on the bottom of the pool if the equipment is not up and running.
Kim
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,677
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
The way it was explained to me...
Some new plaster finishes tend to leech plaster dust. You don't want this plaster dust floating off and landing back onto the plaster, and sticking there permanently, which would affect the finish negatively (feel and appearance). So you brush, brush, brush, to loosen the dust from the surface, and suspend it into the water, then filter, filter, filter, to suck the dust out of the water. Lather, rinse, repeat for a month or until no amount of brushing reveals a cloud of dust.
So logic would dictate (my logic, anyway), the sooner you are filtering, and the sooner, and more often, you brush, the less chance this errant plaster dust has to stick to your beautiful new surface.
In my case, I have pebble, which was acid washed before the fill (as part of the install process). I never saw the tiniest hint of dust, like, ever. I was told the acid washing virtually eliminates this dust problem. It seemed to be true for my pool. I ran the filter for a month straight anyway, and brushed at least twice a day for weeks. I figured neither would harm the surface, and since it might help, why not. A few dollars of electricity and a few less minutes of watching TV seemed like a small price to pay for a pool surface I might have to live with for decades.
Some new plaster finishes tend to leech plaster dust. You don't want this plaster dust floating off and landing back onto the plaster, and sticking there permanently, which would affect the finish negatively (feel and appearance). So you brush, brush, brush, to loosen the dust from the surface, and suspend it into the water, then filter, filter, filter, to suck the dust out of the water. Lather, rinse, repeat for a month or until no amount of brushing reveals a cloud of dust.
So logic would dictate (my logic, anyway), the sooner you are filtering, and the sooner, and more often, you brush, the less chance this errant plaster dust has to stick to your beautiful new surface.
In my case, I have pebble, which was acid washed before the fill (as part of the install process). I never saw the tiniest hint of dust, like, ever. I was told the acid washing virtually eliminates this dust problem. It seemed to be true for my pool. I ran the filter for a month straight anyway, and brushed at least twice a day for weeks. I figured neither would harm the surface, and since it might help, why not. A few dollars of electricity and a few less minutes of watching TV seemed like a small price to pay for a pool surface I might have to live with for decades.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,677
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I thought the sequestering agent was used in a new fill over new plaster to trap the dust. I may have that wrong. My sequestering agent was furnished by the company that did the plastering.
And yes, I believe the CH level is really important. That and pH. In my case, my fill water has so much calcium in it that it is perfect for a pool. So none was added to my pool. It's great the PB is coming today. But keep him and anybody else working on your pool honest by testing the water yourself. If the results don't align with TFPC, you should speak up. Blindly following pool professionals' advice is how my pool got into so much trouble. Remember: "professional" just means they get paid for what they do, not necessarily that they know what they're doing...
And yes, I believe the CH level is really important. That and pH. In my case, my fill water has so much calcium in it that it is perfect for a pool. So none was added to my pool. It's great the PB is coming today. But keep him and anybody else working on your pool honest by testing the water yourself. If the results don't align with TFPC, you should speak up. Blindly following pool professionals' advice is how my pool got into so much trouble. Remember: "professional" just means they get paid for what they do, not necessarily that they know what they're doing...
It was an interesting Saturday night around my house! Maybe I will post a fuller report later, but will hit the high points here. Pool was full around 7:00 PM. Based on the helpful advice from Kim and Dirk and everyone else on this board, I didn't want to leave everything until today or Monday. So I broke open my test kit and figured out how to fire up the pump. Set the pump to pre-set 2, which was 1500 RPM. The start up card Kim linked to was very helpful - one step at a time. It also happened to be the exact same start up card my pool builder attached to the contract. So everyone was on the same page. My "baby test kit" was pretty basic, so I have only tested the PH, total alkalinity and calcium hardness so far.
Fill water was:
PH 8.2+ it was literally off the charts on my test kit
Alkalinity 20 PPM
Calcium 10 PPM
First reading on the pool itself, around 7:00 PM day 1, was:
PH 8.2+ still off the charts
Alkalinity 40 PPM
Calcium 30 PPM
Start up card says you need to address alkalinity before PH - need to get total alkalinity up to 80-100 PPM before addressing PH balance. So I looked at instructions on the baking soda and realized, I needed A LOT of it. I added a whole 12 pound bag and went to Walmart to get two more. Came back, added about another 10.5 pounds for a total of 22.5.
Tested water again at around 10 PM Day 1:
PH 8.2+ still off the charts
Alkalinity 100 PPM (sort of between 9 and 10 drops so maybe actually 95 PPM)
Calcium 30 PPM
So the baking soda did what it was supossed to do, now it was time to try to bring the PH down.
Instructions on muriatic acid said to add not more than one quart per 24 hour period for 20,000 gallon pool. So for my 25,000 gallon pool I put in 40 oz. One cup at a time, diluted in a five gallon bucket of pool water. I alternated the bucket dumps between two returns and didn't put the whole bucket in a once. Sort of about a gallon at a time, pause, another gallon.
I was hopeful that this would get PH under control. I brushed the pool while I let the acid circulate. It was after midnight when I finished.
Last test last night was around 12:30 Day 1, only checked PH:
PH 8.2+ still off the charts
THis morning, checked levels again, around 8:30 Day 2:
PH 8.2+ still off the charts
Alkalinity 100 PPM (95 PPM?)
Calcium 30 PPM
Haven't seen pool builder yet, will give him a call in a little bit. I am in a bit of a conundrum. Acid instructions say not more than 40 ounces in 24 hours, but I need to get the PH down before I can address calcium, and I am afraid if I don't address calcium soon it will leach calcium out of my brand new plaster.
What do you guys think? More acid now? Or wait until 24 hours have passed from last dose?
By the way, thanks to everyone on here for giving me the confidence to tackle this myself. The start up card is great - one step at a time. That I can do. Reading he pool school materials, it is kind of confusing because there are a lot of variables and my eyes just sort of glaze over. But by taking it one step at a time, it seems manageable.
Dirk, interesting what you said about not getting plaster dust. I have a polished pebble finish, and they acid washed before filling pool. I have now brushed twice, once last night and once this morning, and I haven't seen a speck of plaster dust either! I was starting to think maybe I wasn't brushing hard enough. BTW, I wasn't able to do the water meter check because I wasn't here when they started filling my pool. Most of the time, I work from home so it is easy to supervise, but I had a couple of meetings and couldn't be here for that part. My pool is a rectangle with a very typical slope to the floor, so I think the pool estimators probably work pretty good for its volume.
This busy pool time has come at a really busy work time for me. I was hoping to catch up on work this weekend, but I'm doing pool work instead. Oh well. One thing Dirk said; He might HAVE to live with plaster for many years. I think it should be: you might GET to live with plaster for many years, if you are lucky! THe plaster we just chipped out was the original plaster in my pool, which was built around 1960. I would be happy if the new plaster lasts that long, even though I won't be around to see it!
Fill water was:
PH 8.2+ it was literally off the charts on my test kit
Alkalinity 20 PPM
Calcium 10 PPM
First reading on the pool itself, around 7:00 PM day 1, was:
PH 8.2+ still off the charts
Alkalinity 40 PPM
Calcium 30 PPM
Start up card says you need to address alkalinity before PH - need to get total alkalinity up to 80-100 PPM before addressing PH balance. So I looked at instructions on the baking soda and realized, I needed A LOT of it. I added a whole 12 pound bag and went to Walmart to get two more. Came back, added about another 10.5 pounds for a total of 22.5.
Tested water again at around 10 PM Day 1:
PH 8.2+ still off the charts
Alkalinity 100 PPM (sort of between 9 and 10 drops so maybe actually 95 PPM)
Calcium 30 PPM
So the baking soda did what it was supossed to do, now it was time to try to bring the PH down.
Instructions on muriatic acid said to add not more than one quart per 24 hour period for 20,000 gallon pool. So for my 25,000 gallon pool I put in 40 oz. One cup at a time, diluted in a five gallon bucket of pool water. I alternated the bucket dumps between two returns and didn't put the whole bucket in a once. Sort of about a gallon at a time, pause, another gallon.
I was hopeful that this would get PH under control. I brushed the pool while I let the acid circulate. It was after midnight when I finished.
Last test last night was around 12:30 Day 1, only checked PH:
PH 8.2+ still off the charts
THis morning, checked levels again, around 8:30 Day 2:
PH 8.2+ still off the charts
Alkalinity 100 PPM (95 PPM?)
Calcium 30 PPM
Haven't seen pool builder yet, will give him a call in a little bit. I am in a bit of a conundrum. Acid instructions say not more than 40 ounces in 24 hours, but I need to get the PH down before I can address calcium, and I am afraid if I don't address calcium soon it will leach calcium out of my brand new plaster.
What do you guys think? More acid now? Or wait until 24 hours have passed from last dose?
By the way, thanks to everyone on here for giving me the confidence to tackle this myself. The start up card is great - one step at a time. That I can do. Reading he pool school materials, it is kind of confusing because there are a lot of variables and my eyes just sort of glaze over. But by taking it one step at a time, it seems manageable.
Dirk, interesting what you said about not getting plaster dust. I have a polished pebble finish, and they acid washed before filling pool. I have now brushed twice, once last night and once this morning, and I haven't seen a speck of plaster dust either! I was starting to think maybe I wasn't brushing hard enough. BTW, I wasn't able to do the water meter check because I wasn't here when they started filling my pool. Most of the time, I work from home so it is easy to supervise, but I had a couple of meetings and couldn't be here for that part. My pool is a rectangle with a very typical slope to the floor, so I think the pool estimators probably work pretty good for its volume.
This busy pool time has come at a really busy work time for me. I was hoping to catch up on work this weekend, but I'm doing pool work instead. Oh well. One thing Dirk said; He might HAVE to live with plaster for many years. I think it should be: you might GET to live with plaster for many years, if you are lucky! THe plaster we just chipped out was the original plaster in my pool, which was built around 1960. I would be happy if the new plaster lasts that long, even though I won't be around to see it!
If this were MY pool I would turn my pump on high AND have the brush ready to work................then test and dose the PH about every 30 mins or so. Set the NOW at 8.2 (I am betting it is higher) and your TARGET as 7.6. Keep doing this until you see it hit the 7s. Once it gets in the 7s then you can back off as you have won that battle. Just remember new plaster will try to push the PH up as it cures.
Pushing PH down will also push the TA down so be ready for that as well. PH and TA work hand in hand.
Kim
Pushing PH down will also push the TA down so be ready for that as well. PH and TA work hand in hand.
Kim