Pool + Spa Automation Breakage

[zollan23]

Hi everyone -
Last weekend, out of nowhere, my spa water was super low and stagnant. When I went to activate "Spa Mode" in iAqualink, nothing happened, so I manually moved some actuators to get water flowing into the spa. Since then, every time I think I have it solved, I'll wake up and the spa is drained again. But it never drains all the way, it just loses about half the water (see photo).
I'm guessing I have an issue with the actuators and not fully understanding how to position them. Can someone help me with my plumbing and the proper way to set this up. My two questions would be:

1. How should it look when I'm in "Pool Mode" and the water is circulating across both pool and spa. If I put my pump high enough I'll get spillover on the spa into pool
2. How should it look when i'm in "Spa Mode" and the water is confined to the Spa with jets on?

I've attached a 2nd picture of my system. I labeled the pipes as best I could and circled the two actuators that typically move when the automated system would function properly. As it sits in the picture, I'm hoing that is the coorrect "pool mode."

Thanks,

 

[DrewLG]

Your lower circled valve is the Suction valve; it selects whether water is pulled from the spa or the pool. The upper valve is the Return valve; it selects whether water is pumped to the spa or the pool.

The labeling you added to the photo seems slightly incorrect. The "Skimmer" label should be "Spa Suction", and the "Suction" label should be "Pool Suction" (or a more specific label -- see note 1 below). Your "Jets" and "Pool" labels look right, but for ease of understanding the valves, you may want to think of them as "Spa Return" and "Pool Return".

In Spa mode, the handles of both circled valves should point to the left (so the side marked "OFF" points to the right). This will open the Spa Suction and Spa Return pipes, so water will be pulled from the spa and returned to the spa.

In Pool mode, the handles should both point to the right. This will open the Pool Suction and Pool Return pipes, so water will be pulled from the pool and returned to the pool. Note that because of the horizontal bypass pipe below the valve, some water will also flow to the spa in this mode (and then it will spill over into the pool). The idea is that if you just keep the system in Pool mode, the spa water will get circulated, too.

If the spa is draining to the level of the lower jets whenever the system is off, it's possible that the check valve in the center of that bypass pipe is bad, and it's allowing water to flow backward from the jets, through the bypass, and into the pool.

If you want spillover from the spa to the pool without having to run the pump so high, your automation should have a Spillway mode that points the handle of the upper valve to the left and the handle of the lower valve to the right, so water will be pulled from the pool and returned to the spa. That's what's shown in your photo.

Two final notes:

1. The right-hand side of the lower valve splits into two pipes. One of those is a pool skimmer, the other is probably the pool main drain (but might be a second pool skimmer if you happen to have two). The manual valve between them adjusts how much water is pulled from each. You may want to watch the water flowing into the skimmer while you turn that manual valve, so you can give each pipe a specific label instead of treating them collectively as generic "Pool Suction".
2. If your automation is moving a valve to the wrong side in the various modes, find the little toggle switch on the back of the valve actuator. It's a 3-way electrical switch labeled ON1 - OFF - ON2, and it can get accidentally moved if someone is messing around with the valves and not paying attention. To reverse the direction of the valve, move the switch from ON1 to ON2 or vice-versa. Make sure you test all modes -- Pool, Spa, and especially Spillway -- to make sure that they're correct.

 

[zollan23]

Holy cow, thank you so much. I will work through this and see where I end up. All of that makes perfect sense and is super helpful. Also gives my wife a chance to use her label maker

 

[zollan23]

Your lower circled valve is the Suction valve; it selects whether water is pulled from the spa or the pool. The upper valve is the Return valve; it selects whether water is pumped to the spa or the pool.

The labeling you added to the photo seems slightly incorrect. The "Skimmer" label should be "Spa Suction", and the "Suction" label should be "Pool Suction" (or a more specific label -- see note 1 below). Your "Jets" and "Pool" labels look right, but for ease of understanding the valves, you may want to think of them as "Spa Return" and "Pool Return".

In Spa mode, the handles of both circled valves should point to the left (so the side marked "OFF" points to the right). This will open the Spa Suction and Spa Return pipes, so water will be pulled from the spa and returned to the spa.

In Pool mode, the handles should both point to the right. This will open the Pool Suction and Pool Return pipes, so water will be pulled from the pool and returned to the pool. Note that because of the horizontal bypass pipe below the valve, some water will also flow to the spa in this mode (and then it will spill over into the pool). The idea is that if you just keep the system in Pool mode, the spa water will get circulated, too.

If the spa is draining to the level of the lower jets whenever the system is off, it's possible that the check valve in the center of that bypass pipe is bad, and it's allowing water to flow backward from the jets, through the bypass, and into the pool.

If you want spillover from the spa to the pool without having to run the pump so high, your automation should have a Spillway mode that points the handle of the upper valve to the left and the handle of the lower valve to the right, so water will be pulled from the pool and returned to the spa. That's what's shown in your photo.

Two final notes:

1. The right-hand side of the lower valve splits into two pipes. One of those is a pool skimmer, the other is probably the pool main drain (but might be a second pool skimmer if you happen to have two). The manual valve between them adjusts how much water is pulled from each. You may want to watch the water flowing into the skimmer while you turn that manual valve, so you can give each pipe a specific label instead of treating them collectively as generic "Pool Suction".
2. If your automation is moving a valve to the wrong side in the various modes, find the little toggle switch on the back of the valve actuator. It's a 3-way electrical switch labeled ON1 - OFF - ON2, and it can get accidentally moved if someone is messing around with the valves and not paying attention. To reverse the direction of the valve, move the switch from ON1 to ON2 or vice-versa. Make sure you test all modes -- Pool, Spa, and especially Spillway -- to make sure that they're correct.

You mention, "If the spa is draining to the level of the lower jets whenever the system is off, it's possible that the check valve in the center of that bypass pipe is bad, and it's allowing water to flow backward from the jets, through the bypass, and into the pool."
This certainly seems to mirror my exact symptoms since it's lowering down to the pool level. My pool is less than 3 years old. Is it common for check valves to fail this quickly? Is there perhaps something I'm doing to cause excess damage to the valve? Just want to make sure I'm covering all of my bases her.

 

[DrewLG]

My pool is less than 3 years old. Is it common for check valves to fail this quickly? Is there perhaps something I'm doing to cause excess damage to the valve? Just want to make sure I'm covering all of my bases her.

I don't know of anything you might be doing to decrease the lifetime of that check valve, but others here have more experience.

 

[zollan23]

Ok, I think I'm all set here. Now my issue is that for whatever reason, my iAqualink system will not automatically switch my actuators any longer, and for some reason it keeps going into "scheer decent" mode despite that not being in my schedule.

How do I tell the system that spa mode should mean that actuators turn the correct way? Pool builder set this up initially and it'd annoying doing it manually. When I hit spa mode it will temporarily turn the system off as it's supposed to, but valves don't turn.

Thanks in advance.

 

[mknauss]

@PoolGate has the most Jandy automation insight.

 

[PoolGate]

Can you post this pic?

 

[zollan23]

 

[zollan23]

Just wanted to check back in on this...

 

[zollan23]

Your lower circled valve is the Suction valve; it selects whether water is pulled from the spa or the pool. The upper valve is the Return valve; it selects whether water is pumped to the spa or the pool.

The labeling you added to the photo seems slightly incorrect. The "Skimmer" label should be "Spa Suction", and the "Suction" label should be "Pool Suction" (or a more specific label -- see note 1 below). Your "Jets" and "Pool" labels look right, but for ease of understanding the valves, you may want to think of them as "Spa Return" and "Pool Return".

In Spa mode, the handles of both circled valves should point to the left (so the side marked "OFF" points to the right). This will open the Spa Suction and Spa Return pipes, so water will be pulled from the spa and returned to the spa.

In Pool mode, the handles should both point to the right. This will open the Pool Suction and Pool Return pipes, so water will be pulled from the pool and returned to the pool. Note that because of the horizontal bypass pipe below the valve, some water will also flow to the spa in this mode (and then it will spill over into the pool). The idea is that if you just keep the system in Pool mode, the spa water will get circulated, too.

If the spa is draining to the level of the lower jets whenever the system is off, it's possible that the check valve in the center of that bypass pipe is bad, and it's allowing water to flow backward from the jets, through the bypass, and into the pool.

If you want spillover from the spa to the pool without having to run the pump so high, your automation should have a Spillway mode that points the handle of the upper valve to the left and the handle of the lower valve to the right, so water will be pulled from the pool and returned to the spa. That's what's shown in your photo.

Two final notes:

1. The right-hand side of the lower valve splits into two pipes. One of those is a pool skimmer, the other is probably the pool main drain (but might be a second pool skimmer if you happen to have two). The manual valve between them adjusts how much water is pulled from each. You may want to watch the water flowing into the skimmer while you turn that manual valve, so you can give each pipe a specific label instead of treating them collectively as generic "Pool Suction".
2. If your automation is moving a valve to the wrong side in the various modes, find the little toggle switch on the back of the valve actuator. It's a 3-way electrical switch labeled ON1 - OFF - ON2, and it can get accidentally moved if someone is messing around with the valves and not paying attention. To reverse the direction of the valve, move the switch from ON1 to ON2 or vice-versa. Make sure you test all modes -- Pool, Spa, and especially Spillway -- to make sure that they're correct.

Okay so I replaced the bypass on that middle pipe and it's been a few weeks. The spa is still draining down in a similar manner when the pump is really low (1800 RPM or lower). My pump never turns completely off and I keep it running at 1,200 RMP overnight and 1,800 most of the day with bursts higher to encourage circulation.

In my image, on the middle left side coming out of my heater is another bypass. Is it possible that this bypass valve is also bad and if so, would that result in the same problem?

 

[zollan23]

Can you post this pic?

View attachment 497168

Hey @PoolGate - I had sent through my screen shot and was hoping to get your help on this.

Thanks,

 

[Ahultin]

In post 1, your automation valves are set such that you are in spillover. If the pump shuts off this would drain the spa to below the level of the spa jets.
Assuming that was supposed to be in pool mode, the actuator switch just needs to be reversed.

 

[zollan23]

In post 1, your automation valves are set such that you are in spillover. If the pump shuts off this would drain the spa to below the level of the spa jets.
Assuming that was supposed to be in pool mode, the actuator switch just needs to be reversed.

That much I understand. I now have them set to pool mode (both handles pointing right) and I've replaced the check valve and the spa still drains overnight. Should I replace the other check valve coming from heater? Just trying to figure out why it's still draining.

 

[Ahultin]

I've replaced the check valve and the spa still drains overnight

When it drains down, is the pool level going up?

Should I replace the other check valve coming from heater

That one would not likely have any impact

Just trying to figure out why it's still draining.

Do you have a spa spillover mode set in your automation? If so, could the valves have gotten reversed causing spa suction and pool return?

 

[zollan23]

When it drains down, is the pool level going up?

That one would not likely have any impact

Do you have a spa spillover mode set in your automation? If so, could the valves have gotten reversed causing spa suction and pool return?

It drains down to the pool level but pool level does not increase.

I changed the second one and the o-ring had come loose... Sad to see it likely has no impact.

I did not have spillover in automation (I actually just added it) but I'm confident my valves are correct and still seeing drainage.

 

[zollan23]

When it drains down, is the pool level going up?

That one would not likely have any impact

Do you have a spa spillover mode set in your automation? If so, could the valves have gotten reversed causing spa suction and pool return?

Confirming the spa drained down to pool level overnight, again.

 

[Ahultin]

Any other recent changes? Was the replacement check valve an oem part or aftermarket?
Have you opened both diverters and confirmed they are fully sealing?

 

[zollan23]

Any other recent changes? Was the replacement check valve an oem part or aftermarket?
Have you opened both diverters and confirmed they are fully sealing?

The check valve replacement was aftermarket.
Can you expand a bit on how I can check if the diverters are fully sealed? Never done this before and would appreciate the direction. Happy to do the test.

There have been no other changes to the system.

Last night, I turned the entire system off overnight. The drainage is going down to just above the jets of the spa which above where the pool is. Not sure if that helps

 

[zollan23]

Any other recent changes? Was the replacement check valve an oem part or aftermarket?
Have you opened both diverters and confirmed they are fully sealing?

Just want to ask one more time...

"Have you opened both diverters and confirmed they are fully sealing?" - Can I just get a little clarity here? Without taking these valves apart, how exactly am I to confirm they're sealing or not? Open them all the way and then what am I looking for? Sorry for such a noob question to a probably obvious answer.