Pool Math........The App

Heinsite

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2012
62
Atlanta, GA (Dunwoody)
Simple supply and demand. Either buy it or dont. If sales suck, I'm sure the price will change and so will upgrades. I don't think a few people complaining will change the cost now. I think the cost people want it more than the buyers. As far as storing data, I doubt the Russians or Leslie's pool store want to hack your numbers.
 

pmd013

Member
Sep 9, 2010
7
Niagara Falls, NY
Hi! I purchased the android version thru google play last week and I love it. I am having one problem thou. CYA does not seem to be coming out correctly. Looks like a decimal issue. On the app I want to raise my CYA from 45 to 75. The app says to add 8.1 oz (1 cup 1oz) and the online calculator says to add 81 oz (4 lbs 14 oz) which is more like it. Just wanted someone to have a heads up so this can be corrected. Thanks for making such a great tool. I love that I can look back at the history and it's convenient to get to from my phone. Perfect!
 

jblizzle

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 19, 2010
43,260
Tucson, AZ
Check to make sure you don't have an extra or missing zero in either the online calculator or the app for the pool volume.
 

Donna30

New member
Jun 26, 2017
3
Forked River, NJ
Re:  Pool Math........The App

I purchased the iOS version of the app, but cannot add logs.I get the message that the free version doesn't support storing logs. PayPal shows that the payment went through. I have tried deleting and re-downloading the app, and shutting down and restarting my tablet. No luck. Any idea what the problem is? Thanks
 

DieselD

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2016
57
Peoria AZ
8bucks a year is cheap luxury! sure I could keep tracking my results on a notebook and referring to the bookmarked pool math on the phone but this is a one stop shop and easy to reference at any time. I will gladly pay the .60cents a month for this app and support to tfp for putting it together
 

rkeller62

Gold Supporter
Silver Supporter
Aug 14, 2016
54
Rochester, NY
Re:  Pool Math........The App

I purchased the iOS version of the app, but cannot add logs.I get the message that the free version doesn't support storing logs. PayPal shows that the payment went through. I have tried deleting and re-downloading the app, and shutting down and restarting my tablet. No luck. Any idea what the problem is? Thanks
This has occurred for a number of people when upgrading the iOS app. Check out post 646 for what you need to do to get the problem resolved.
 

redth

TFP Guide
Jun 21, 2016
63
Leamington, Ontario, Canada
I believe the $8 yearly subscription fee is way too high.

If there is an additional server cost then that was simply bad programming, unless you require access to the data for data mining for potential future profit?

The results could just as easily be saved locally and/or to iCloud. This would have easily allowed sync between devices without the need of your servers or a forum account at all. I would personally prefer my data not stored on your servers, which was claimed as a large reason for the cost.

I understand the need for future development funds for an app with a limited market. I would understand maybe a $2-$3/year subscription OR $8 one time fee however $8/year is too excessive for the iOS app market.

Maybe the $8/year would be appropriate for the ability to add and track multiple pools, auto selection based
On GPS, along with other pool professional features however not for one pool residential owners who have a 4 month pool season yet still would enjoy the core tracking features.

Without these "premium" features however the app is less useful than a bookmark icon to a webpage.
In the next update free users will be able to store one test log entry so that the calculator pages show your last tested / saved values and so that you can see what you'd get if you upgraded for unlimited test log data. We think this will make the app function more intuitively for free users, and offer more value for free of course too! We are definitely working on adding more features for premium subscribers to increase the value of paying for it.

We don't store data in iCloud since we want users to be able to access data from any device. Many users (including myself) have devices in multiple eco-systems, and when I first started working on this app, this was a key feature for my own usage. I want to be able to access my data on my Android phone, iPad, and windows desktop (coming eventually!). Unfortunately Apple does not allow iCloud data sync from non-iOS devices :( so it wasn't an option.

We may eventually allow an option not to sync data, however there would still be some subscription cost associated with the app IF we ever did that. Let's face it, recurring revenue is required for recurring maintenance and new features. There's this illusion that apps can be sustainable as a one time fee, which simply isn't true. We had a number of options when working out pricing. We could have created a new version each year (eg: Pool Math 2018) where you had to buy it again to get new features, or we could just let the app die when sales stopped. We really felt the best option for everyone was a subscription model. We'll definitely keep looking at other pricing structures in the future, but for now it seems to be working, or at least generally allowing us to focus on improving the app.

Apologies if it's too steep of a price to pay, we are simply trying to make this a long term viable project. Hopefully at some point in the future you'll re-evaluate the value of becoming a subscriber!

Thanks!
 

chiefwej

LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 12, 2011
3,395
Tucson
People spend hundreds of dollars every couple years to have the latest iPhone, then balk at the price of an app that cost less than one trip to Starbucks. $8 per year seems reasonable to me for an app that will help me manage a pool that cost many, many thousands of times that amount. I'm cheap, but $8 for anything that has to do with a pool.........
 

Teald024

TFP Guide
In the next update free users will be able to store one test log entry so that the calculator pages show your last tested / saved values and so that you can see what you'd get if you upgraded for unlimited test log data. We think this will make the app function more intuitively for free users, and offer more value for free of course too!
I think this is a great improvement! To be honest, the free version is frustrating to use without this feature. Logging or not, even with in the same session, the App doesn't remember anything.
 

pmd013

Member
Sep 9, 2010
7
Niagara Falls, NY
Re: Pool Math........The App
Check to make sure you don't have an extra or missing zero in either the online calculator or the app for the pool volume.


jblizzle
That is exactly what I did. I missed a zero in the pool app. Thank you!
 

edwin2014

LifeTime Supporter
Jul 18, 2014
107
Europe / The Netherlands
Android 6. Unable to paste username & password. When manually entered app freezes :(
Edit: after restart app I was logged in and able to setup a pool.
Edit2: when entering new pool in liters it is stored in translated gallons. So 180 liter entered becomes 58xx something liters. Changed again to 1810 and it sticked.
Edit3: would be nice if we could also use it for a spa. Instead of treading the spa as of a small pool with high temperatures. Now I'm on able to record water change and TA values etc are different compared to pool. Also suggested values don't match.
Edit4: why not use Dropbox for sync storage?
Edit5: perhaps these kinds of feature request could be placed in different thread? Couldn't find one via tapatalk.
Edit6: unable to enter bleach 12.5% neither with, or.
PH same decimal problem

Please move these remarks of they are in the wrong place
 

Flying Tivo

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2017
1,108
Monterrey, NL, Mexico
In the next update free users will be able to store one test log entry so that the calculator pages show your last tested / saved values and so that you can see what you'd get if you upgraded for unlimited test log data. We think this will make the app function more intuitively for free users, and offer more value for free of course too! We are definitely working on adding more features for premium subscribers to increase the value of paying for it.

We don't store data in iCloud since we want users to be able to access data from any device. Many users (including myself) have devices in multiple eco-systems, and when I first started working on this app, this was a key feature for my own usage. I want to be able to access my data on my Android phone, iPad, and windows desktop (coming eventually!). Unfortunately Apple does not allow iCloud data sync from non-iOS devices :( so it wasn't an option.

We may eventually allow an option not to sync data, however there would still be some subscription cost associated with the app IF we ever did that. Let's face it, recurring revenue is required for recurring maintenance and new features. There's this illusion that apps can be sustainable as a one time fee, which simply isn't true. We had a number of options when working out pricing. We could have created a new version each year (eg: Pool Math 2018) where you had to buy it again to get new features, or we could just let the app die when sales stopped. We really felt the best option for everyone was a subscription model. We'll definitely keep looking at other pricing structures in the future, but for now it seems to be working, or at least generally allowing us to focus on improving the app.

Apologies if it's too steep of a price to pay, we are simply trying to make this a long term viable project. Hopefully at some point in the future you'll re-evaluate the value of becoming a subscriber!

Thanks!
Have you guys considered in app purchase of chemicals? I can bet Clorox/Taylor/TFT would pay a ton of money for brand product purchases and probably better price point for us. This would definitely make the App Free!

Felipe
 

Teald024

TFP Guide
Have you guys considered in app purchase of chemicals? I can bet Clorox/Taylor/TFT would pay a ton of money for brand product purchases and probably better price point for us. This would definitely make the App Free!Felipe
This pretty much goes against one of the founding rules of the forum. It also removes any perceived bias from users when a specific recommendation is made. Those offering advice are giving the best solution, not the solution that will bring in money. That's one of the biggest beefs with Pool $tores. They recommend to fill their pockets, not to help customers.

Have you ever been on a forum or App that uses ads? They are horrible, the products you search for online show up in your ads within minutes. Many of us would actually prefer to pay to keeps the ads away...
 

JoyfulNoise

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
May 23, 2015
15,895
Tucson, AZ
Believe me when I say this - the app developer and forum admins are aware of the cost of the app and how it is impacting adoption. They are working on many different scenarios to see if cost reductions are possible. Right now the $8 annual subscription is the most viable option for keeping this app and it's development on track. Believe me, no one, and I mean NO ONE, is getting rich off this app! This app is not a means to generate money; it was never intended as such. But, in order for it to get it's start in life and continue to grow and improve, the up-front cost is going to be higher than most people are used to. As the App matures and develops, there may be opportunities to reduce costs or shift to different pricing models.

As for now, the $8 annual subscription is here to stay. If the app doesn't have enough features that you find valuable at the current pricing, then stick with the free version until such a time as you feel you'd be getting more value for the money spent.

Oh and by the way.....there's an UPDATE!!!!

Spoiler - nothing major, just some bug fixes and changes to the free version for logging purposes.
 

Flying Tivo

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2017
1,108
Monterrey, NL, Mexico
This pretty much goes against one of the founding rules of the forum. It also removes any perceived bias from users when a specific recommendation is made. Those offering advice are giving the best solution, not the solution that will bring in money. That's one of the biggest beefs with Pool $tores. They recommend to fill their pockets, not to help customers.

Have you ever been on a forum or App that uses ads? They are horrible, the products you search for online show up in your ads within minutes. Many of us would actually prefer to pay to keeps the ads away...
I did not meant like Ads, but more like a store, you purchase what you need but with a better price point due to captive audience and like linking to amazon you get a fee.
I love the app and 8 wont make me richer or poor, just pointing out options.


Felipe
 

Leebo

Admin
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 21, 2011
8,966
Eastern Ohio
A few years ago when I first was asked by Dave to step up and help JasonLion with Admin duties I set 3 goals for myself. First was to pass 100,000 members by the end of 2015. Second was to pass 200,000 members by the end of 2019. These two were very clear and measurable, something so I could alway see progress in the short term. It was the third goal however that I've always been focused on. This goal is one that I never can truly achieve. I want for TFP to change the swimming pool industry.

For over years I watched as my in-laws struggled with their pool. They built their pool for a place where their grandkids (we're over 40 grandchildren) could play. They loved watching the kids play but would have to spend hours working to keep it blue. If you could ever make out an item in the deep end it would a HUGE victory for them. During this time they used Baquacil which in addition to the hard work also caused them to spend $500-$1000 each year on Chemicals. They did all of this simply because they never were taught a better way of pool care. I view this App as another way for TFP to continue to teach pool owners a better way.

Which leads us to the point. I'm an idiot. Not even a small idiot......I'm a HUGE idiot. This tool that's being created is all Jon. I may toss in a few ideas here and there but the development is all him. At first there were privacy concerns with the Social Login. To address this he setup the ability to use your TFP account. Next during Beta we had an issue with several accounts being deleted. To address he created a backup feature PLUS tossed in an import/export feature for those who've been using an excel file for years. This way you have the ability to control your data. Most recently he's greatly improved this FREE App by allowing all users access to the log portion of the App. So again, what's my point? There is good reason we're looking for the reoccurring funding as we are. We want to continue the building of this App. We want to see the App to be built into something amazing. I look at it right now and see so much more potential. I see the possibility of tracking your pumps run time via Bluetooth. I see the potential for predictive advice to be given. I see the opportunity for PoolMath to become so much more than it currently is. With that however two things are needed, time and money.

Jon has put in a TON of his personal time. As an example, when the App was launched Jon did so while on a vacation with his wife celebrating their 10th weeding anniversary. Daily he's chipping away at something. For that I thank him! There's no doubt in my mind Jon is making way less than minimum wage for his efforts on this project. Your support is helping him achieve some results for his efforts.

So onto money, is the App worth $8 a year right now? I can't answer that for you. That's how you see the value. Is there room for improvement? Heck ya!! To those who question the fee, we invite you to continue to use the App and continue to help us improve the service to provide you with a $8 a year value. We are open to ideas to improve the App for you. Additionally Jon has also agreed to give TFP a percentage of all the sales. This means not only does your subscription help support Jon to continue the development of this amazing new tool it also helps fund the forum and our mission to remain Ad free for all.

We thank all of you for your support. So far the progress of the App has been pleasing but there's still room to grow. We're already working on the next update and hope to continue to make PoolMath a better value for all. Now, off to start working on a feature to track Chemicals. :)