Pool deck issue

[EnglishN]

Recently had a fiberglass pool installed and concrete poured and apparently the mix had calcium chloride in it which caused the entire 1600 sq ft patio and coping to be discolored and severe black spots everywhere. I’m not sure of the remedy at this stage but afraid there isn’t a remedy other than bust the concrete out and repour or put pavers on top of the current concrete. I’m devastated and at a loss bc concrete contractor isn’t responding and pool company says the black spots will fade with warm weather but what I have read they are permanent and will get worse. It has been 45 days since original pour. Recommendations to remedy?

 

[kimkats]

OH NO! Sorry to be meeting you this way. That does not look good at all

I see you also have the coping to deal with. That does make it a bit harder.

Here is the FIRST thing you do...............get EVERYTHING about this issue in writing! Use certified letters to send your displeasure about the out come of the decking. Tell the facts without ANY emotion. You can share your letter here for us to look over.

Possible fixes:
-bust out and redo
-some kind of overlay like "kool deck" (do a search in your area to see what is available.

Have you paid 100% of the money owed on this build?

 

[Apsuhead]

I’m somewhat dealing with the same issue. My concrete was poured for my new fiberglass pool over a month ago and they added calcium as well. Mine looked great until they came back the next day and cleaned off the concrete mortar from the edge of my fiberglass shell. The cleaning solution left big runs and streaks all around the deck. The PB said it would fade away after a few weeks. Well, it is still very noticeable although it has lightened up a bit. I have read that I can pour hot water over the area and scrub. Another possible thing to try is to mix a solution of muriac acid and apply to concrete, scrub, and rinse. I really don’t want to have to get to that step. Like the other poster said, you can add some type of coating to the concrete. This becomes a maintenance issue because it won’t last forever and will have to be redone every few years. I’m sorry you are having to deal with this, I know how it feels
I’m hoping mine continues to lighten up and disappear. Maybe a light power wash next summer will completely remove my discoloration.
Here is a pic of mine from a month ago on Dec 8, 2020 ...
And now on Jan 14, 2021 ...

 

[Dirk]

DO NOT try any "home remedies" to fix anything. I can only speak from my own perspective dealing with similar issues, but in CA you have to first give the contractor the opportunity to address any problem, before you try to fix it yourself, have someone else fix it, or sue him to fix it. If you apply your own remedy, it would give the PB pretty good grounds to walk away scott-free, as he could claim you made things worse (which you might very well actually do).

@kimkats may want to split these two different problems from two different posters into separate threads before we get all tangled up helping each other...

And by the way, when contractors claim that "the problem will eventually just go away" what I think that actually means is that "the contractor will eventually just go away!" As Kim suggests, document everything, take lots of pictures, update with more pictures periodically to show any progression. If you have a verbal conversation, have a witness present (preferably a non-relative/spouse) and follow up with an email: "On such-n-such date/time, we spoke at the pool and you stated X and I said Y and we agreed to Z." Ask that the recipient of the email confirm receipt with a reply.

You don't necessarily need to go "full ballistic" legal on your PB at this point, as you are in the "fact gathering" stage. You want to keep things cordial for now, if you can, as that can lead to the best outcome. But if this goes south, you want to be prepared, and if your "fact gathering" turns into "evidence gathering," you'll want to have your ducks in a row...

 

[Dirk]

2¢: If either of these builds turns to a negotiation about applying something to the existing problem concrete as the ultimate remedy, this would be my stance: "coated" concrete is not what was contracted, not what I paid for. A "free coating" is not an acceptable solution, as this will just turn into a costly maintenance item forever. If I am to accept a coating, then not only must 100% of the cost of the concrete deck be refunded, but a substantial discount applied to the remaining cost of the build to compensate for future maintenance.

Remember, unless some of our PB experts recognize either of these stains as something fixable, then your PBs are faced with tearing out the existing concrete and rebar, and doing all that all over again. Not to mention the possible damage to the pool while demo is going on. They could be looking at doing the entire job again! So they are facing way more out-of-pocket than just throwing in the existing deck at no charge plus a discount on the pool for your current and future trouble. Them just paying a few bills for some coating and walking away is not an equitable solution, at all, IMO.

 

[Dirk]

Sorry, got a little carried away there. Let me put my shotgun away, and let's first see what @JamesW and @jimmythegreek say about these stains...

 

[jimmythegreek]

For the 2md poster in TN have them come back and use the same cleaner on the whole deck. It will all turn into the same shade they used some type of concrete cleaner that had acid in it. When they did this the deck should have been wet amd kept wet amd whole deck ahould have been done

To the original poster those are pock marks. Diammonium citrate can be used to treat the pocks but its very hard to make them go away amd look perfect. Muriatic acid diluted is usually the first step. Anyone doing finish grade flatwork using calcium better be a master at his craft, I would never chance it, the aggregate content can leave colored blotches as well it's a gamble

 

[Dirk]

Thanks Jimmy. Maybe good news for Apsuhead, not so good for EnglishN...

 

[sarahgelatinano]

Oh wow, that looks bad ( both). Sorry got have to go through this, lucky to have experts chime in who know! Thank you!

 

[sarahgelatinano]

Also, why do they add calcium to the concrete anyway ( in the first case). What's the rational for those of us not in the biz @jimmythegreek ?

 

[EnglishN]

For the 2md poster in TN have them come back and use the same cleaner on the whole deck. It will all turn into the same shade they used some type of concrete cleaner that had acid in it. When they did this the deck should have been wet amd kept wet amd whole deck ahould have been done

To the original poster those are pock marks. Diammonium citrate can be used to treat the pocks but its very hard to make them go away amd look perfect. Muriatic acid diluted is usually the first step. Anyone doing finish grade flatwork using calcium better be a master at his craft, I would never chance it, the aggregate content can leave colored blotches as well it's a gamble

Thank you for your feedback. I spoke with a concrete contractor this morning who recommended kool deck over the current concrete. Do you think the kool deck is a good option that would cover the stains and not have a reaction with the calcium chloride spots?

 

[EnglishN]

OH NO! Sorry to be meeting you this way. That does not look good at all

I see you also have the coping to deal with. That does make it a bit harder.

Here is the FIRST thing you do...............get EVERYTHING about this issue in writing! Use certified letters to send your displeasure about the out come of the decking. Tell the facts without ANY emotion. You can share your letter here for us to look over.

Possible fixes:
-bust out and redo
-some kind of overlay like "kool deck" (do a search in your area to see what is available.

Have you paid 100% of the money owed on this build?

I have about 5% left to pay. Is kool deck a viable option or is kool deck a maintenance issue like someone below mentioned?

 

[EnglishN]

Kool deck sounds like it has future problems with peeling etc and can be a nightmare to remove if it does chip and peel. Is a solid tinted sealer better for my situation?

 

[borjis]

Kool deck doesn't last forever, so consider it an ongoing thing. Lasts longer sure. Mine peeled in enough places I'm done w it. Sanded it smooth and now I paint over it every 3 years.

 

[jimmythegreek]

They use calcium for temp issues or for fast set. This was fast set they wanted to finish a big pour and work it and be done in a normal day. I never use it for finish work it can bite you in the butt. The truck needs to overmix on site and the slump and aggregate choice has to be compatible. Certain aggregates with minerals can make colored splotches like greens and rusty shades come thru.
Not a fan of overlays its maintenence and a pain to deal with. I would try acid wash first and them diammonium citrate amd try to even it out. You could stain it then sealer amd have it and up looking much better than now. Whoever did the work doeant have much leverage on saying the finished product looks good, its pretty obvious

 

[EnglishN]

They use calcium for temp issues or for fast set. This was fast set they wanted to finish a big pour and work it and be done in a normal day. I never use it for finish work it can bite you in the butt. The truck needs to overmix on site and the slump and aggregate choice has to be compatible. Certain aggregates with minerals can make colored splotches like greens and rusty shades come thru.
Not a fan of overlays its maintenence and a pain to deal with. I would try acid wash first and them diammonium citrate amd try to even it out. You could stain it then sealer amd have it and up looking much better than now. Whoever did the work doeant have much leverage on saying the finished product looks good, its pretty obvious

Do you recommend muriatic acid for the acid wash? And do you think I can treat the coping as well bc it is quite discolored. Is there any benefit to waiting a few months to treat the areas to see if warm weather changes the situation at all?
Are concrete mixing companies not liable at all for results like this?
Thank you again for giving me advice!

 

[jimmythegreek]

It's up to the installer to spec the mix amd know how to prep the batch. Personally I would raise heck amd make them come do it. You can make a mess of things if you dont know what your doing and it's not a 1 man job. With some research it can be done but not a jump in head first thing

 

[EnglishN]

2¢: If either of these builds turns to a negotiation about applying something to the existing problem concrete as the ultimate remedy, this would be my stance: "coated" concrete is not what was contracted, not what I paid for. A "free coating" is not an acceptable solution, as this will just turn into a costly maintenance item forever. If I am to accept a coating, then not only must 100% of the cost of the concrete deck be refunded, but a substantial discount applied to the remaining cost of the build to compensate for future maintenance.

Remember, unless some of our PB experts recognize either of these stains as something fixable, then your PBs are faced with tearing out the existing concrete and rebar, and doing all that all over again. Not to mention the possible damage to the pool while demo is going on. They could be looking at doing the entire job again! So they are facing way more out-of-pocket than just throwing in the existing deck at no charge plus a discount on the pool for your current and future trouble. Them just paying a few bills for some coating and walking away is not an equitable solution, at all, IMO.

How much discount or percentage should I ask for future maintenance? The only solutions that have been offered is concrete overlay that will chip or a Krete Kote system that will do the same.

 

[Dirk]

I'm not sure. I don't have any experience maintaining those surfaces. I don't know how long they last, or how much labor and material is required. But it doesn't really matter. You have to come at it from another angle. What would be his cost to demo the existing deck and pour a new one? If he's inclined to compensate you, the amount will be that or less, minus the cost of the coating. That's the math he's doing, and all you have to work with, even if you could somehow demonstrate future maintenance will cost more.

Now how you come up with the numbers is tricky. He's not going to offer them (or rather, how could you trust it). You might have to get some third-party quotes. You need a quote for a complete redo. And you need a quote for stripping and replacing the coating. Then the frequency, then multiply by longevity.

So, say to re-coat costs $500. And it must be done every two years. And say you could reasonably expect a non-coated deck to last 20 years. (Just making up numbers.) Well, you're looking at $5000 of future costs (not counting inflation). Can he demo and re-pour your deck for that?