Pool cleaner only works sometimes

PumpinIron

Bronze Supporter
Aug 20, 2022
38
Florence, AZ
Pool Size
16000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
We recently bought a house with a pool here in Arizona. This is our first time owning a pool and this pool is roughly 2 years old. It’s using all Pentair stuff and I have the Pentair app on my phone which I use to control the pool.

When my pool is in high speed mode sometimes the cleaner (pictured below) moves around and works really well. Other times it doesn't even move around at all.

Pool is 2 years old, filters are perfectly clean, salt cell is clean, no errors in my Pentair app, etc.

It just seems that without rhyme or reason sometimes it moves around and does a great job of cleaning the whole pool and other times it just sits there and doesn't even move at all.

Any ideas why this might be?
 

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this appears to be a suction side cleaner. Is it connected to a port in wall of the pool?
Post a picture of your pool equipment, especially the suction side plumbing.
Yes, forgive me if I don’t know the correct terminology since I’m new to pools. It does have a hose that is connected to a port in the pool wall. I’ll post photos of the pool equipment here shortly once I’m home. Should be about 30 minutes.
 
Welcome to TFP! :wave:

The pool pump will need to run at a high rpm for several hours per day for that suction side cleaner to properly work. There may also be a flow control close to the wall connection point which can be adjusted to provide better flow at a given pump rpm. What manufacturer and model number of cleaner?

My guess is that when the cleaner "works", the pump rpm is high and when it doesn't "work" the pump rpm is low or the pump is off.

Fill out your signature with pool, pool equipment (manufacturers and model numbers) and test kit info.
This assists us in providing help without having to ask for this info each time.

I suggest you look thru Pool Care Basics and possibly view a few videos on TFP-TV
 
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Ok. Let a person with a suction cleaner help you out … 😉

You need to make sure that your suction cleaner is getting the correct flow of water. Pump RPMs are part of the equation but it’s a misunderstanding to think you have to run the pump at HIGH speed to get it to clean. My pump runs at lower speeds and my suction cleaner works fine.

First question - did the previous owner leave you the flow rate tester that comes with the Rebel? It looks like a clear plastic attachment to the hose with a disk in it that lets you measure flow rate?

Also, what speeds is your pump running at, both normal and “high” and what is their schedule?
 
Welcome to TFP! :wave:

The pool pump will need to run at a high rpm for several hours per day for that suction side cleaner to properly work. There may also be a flow control close to the wall connection point which can be adjusted to provide better flow at a given pump rpm. What manufacturer and model number of cleaner?

My guess is that when the cleaner "works", the pump rpm is high and when it doesn't "work" the pump rpm is low or the pump is off.

Fill out your signature with pool, pool equipment (manufacturers and model numbers) and test kit info.
This assists us in providing help without having to ask for this info each time.

I suggest you look thru Pool Care Basics and possibly view a few videos on TFP-TV
Thank you, I’ll be sure to fill that out shortly once it stops pouring rain here in Arizona.

One oddity I’ve noticed is that even when the robot isn’t working if you unplug the hose that connects to it, there’s tons and tons of suction.

Maybe that points to the robot itself being bad? However, when I inspect it it appears to roll around just fine. I can turn the wheels with my hands and all the gears seem to work just fine.
 
Thank you, I’ll be sure to fill that out shortly once it stops pouring rain here in Arizona.

One oddity I’ve noticed is that even when the robot isn’t working if you unplug the hose that connects to it, there’s tons and tons of suction.

Maybe that points to the robot itself being bad? However, when I inspect it it appears to roll around just fine. I can turn the wheels with my hands and all the gears seem to work just fine.

You need the suction flow tool to know if it’s enough or not. Testing by hand isn’t adequate.
 
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Ok. Let a person with a suction cleaner help you out … 😉

You need to make sure that your suction cleaner is getting the correct flow of water. Pump RPMs are part of the equation but it’s a misunderstanding to think you have to run the pump at HIGH speed to get it to clean. My pump runs at lower speeds and my suction cleaner works fine.

First question - did the previous owner leave you the flow rate tester that comes with the Rebel? It looks like a clear plastic attachment to the hose with a disk in it that lets you measure flow rate?

Also, what speeds is your pump running at, both normal and “high” and what is their schedule?

The previous owner did not leave me that part. Should I check my local pool store for one? Seems like this is something I ought to have.

Here’s a screenshot from my Pentair app showing the pump speeds:

E3175ACB-3685-4A35-9927-95C4F80EA458.png

Here’s the schedule:

16F2DC25-AEFA-404C-9BAC-9A24BA54120F.png
 

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So those speeds seem excessive.

Look at your equipment pad. To the right side of the suction line going into the pump you’ll see a 3-way diverter valve. That valve likely controls the split between your skimmer and suction port.

Is it labeled?

Right now it looks like it is set to 50/50. But the thing to realize is that the head loss of the suction port (robot) and skimmer are not the same. So even though the valve is set to both being fully open, the flow is going to split between the robot and skimmer based on their relative head loss’. If you rotate that valve one way or the other, you’ll get more suction to the skimmer or robot.

For example, this is how my valve is split so that the robot can run as well as the skimmer at normal pool speed -

image.jpg

Notice it’s about 2/3rds robot and 1/3rd skimmer.

Try playing with your diverter valve to see what it does.
 
I doubt a pool store will have the flow gauge but you can check. I would just order it online. Amazon probably has them. Chances are a pool store will charge you an arm and leg for one.
 
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So those speeds seem excessive.

Look at your equipment pad. To the right side of the suction line going into the pump you’ll see a 3-way diverter valve. That valve likely controls the split between your skimmer and suction port.

Is it labeled?

Right now it looks like it is set to 50/50. But the thing to realize is that the head loss of the suction port (robot) and skimmer are not the same. So even though the valve is set to both being fully open, the flow is going to split between the robot and skimmer based on their relative head loss’. If you rotate that valve one way or the other, you’ll get more suction to the skimmer or robot.

For example, this is how my valve is split so that the robot can run as well as the skimmer at normal pool speed -

View attachment 447983

Notice it’s about 2/3rds robot and 1/3rd skimmer.

Try playing with your diverter valve to see what it does.

Okay, so I followed your advice and started turning this lever:

IMG_5568.jpg

Again, I'm new to pools but from what I can tell the handle controls a valve that splits the flow between the skimmer on one side an the vacuum suction on the other, correct?

I went ahead and moved it just a little and sure enough the little robot (what is the technical term by the way?) came to life and started doing it's job.

Is there a position I should set this valve to? Should it be 50/50, 70/30, etc.?

Is this little robot (I believe it's called a Rebel?) a good option, or is there a better cleaner out there that I should look into if this thing ever kicks the can?

Now a slightly unrelated question, but what happens if I move this over valve where it says pool on one side and spa drain on the other?

IMG_5569.jpg
 
Terminology -

What you have is a Pentair Rebel automatic suction-side cleaner. Just call it a "suction cleaner" for short. Suction cleaners get their name from the fact that they use the suction power of the pool pump to drive their internal gears in order to create motion.

Another type of automatic pool cleaner is a pressure-side cleaner. Pressure side cleaners get their name form the fact that they use the pressure from the discharge of the pool pump, typically in combination with another "booster" pump (to boost the pressure), in order to drive the cleaner. Pressure side cleaners are somewhat "old school" in that they use a ton of electrical energy given that they typically need a booster pump. There are certain devotees to the suction cleaner world and so it's somewhat of a Chevy vs Ford debate between suction and pressure cleaners (but we all know suction cleaners are better so just humor them ...).

Finally, your third type of cleaner is a robotic cleaner that is run from an electrical power supply and it generates it's own motion and suction with internal motors. They are super expensive, incredible energy-efficient, but are engineered for failure. You can see the link in my thread if you want to walk down memory lane with my saga of switching between suction cleaner then a robot then back to suction cleaner. Robot owners love their robots and are economic slaves to them ... you can't argue with a robot owner, you can only feel sorry for them ... but, like most cult-like mentalities, you have to simply let them be and hope they will come to their senses some day .... joking, sort of.

Anyway, now the fun part - you need to start experimenting with your automation system by changing pump speeds so that you can find the LOWEST possible pump speed that will run your SWG chlorinator, your robot and your heater. You'll likely need to keep the 3-way valve set to a position where it is fully open to the cleaner but slightly choking off the skimmer (like what you are seeing now). You'll not only want to make sure your equipment operates at this yet-to-be-determined low speed, but you also want to make sure your skimmer is pulling in water. You can create lots of different programs with lots of different speeds, but finding this new low speed is something you'll want to run your pool at most of the time. Use higher speeds for the spa as you want the jets to run with lots of force and bubbles. Which brings up the point that if you don't intend to use the heater to heat the pool, then the low speed you are looking for doesn't need to activate the heater, just the SWG, cleaner and skimmer. Once you find that speed, add 200 RPMs to it (if you are in RPM mode and not flow control mode) just to be safe and account for filter loading.

As for the automated valve, that valve turns when you activate SPA mode. It rotates the suction fully to the SPA drains which is what you want. So when it is in spa mode, the other side of the suction line with the skimmer and cleaner is irrelevant.

Finally a pro-tip, you want to get one of these if you don't already have one -


Putting a leaf canister on the hoses that connect your cleaner to the wall port is a good idea to make sure that nothing large gets sucked into your suction line that could potentially cause clogged plumbing. It also keeps your pumps strainer basket very clean. You really want to avoid suction line clogs as they are PITA to fix ... ask me how I know??
 
Last edited:
Terminology -

What you have is a Pentair Rebel automatic suction-side cleaner. Just call it a "suction cleaner" for short. Suction cleaners get their name from the fact that they use the suction power of the pool pump to drive their internal gears in order to create motion.

Another type of automatic pool cleaner is a pressure-side cleaner. Pressure side cleaners get their name form the fact that they use the pressure from the discharge of the pool pump, typically in combination with another "booster" pump (to boost the pressure), in order to drive the cleaner. Pressure side cleaners are somewhat "old school" in that they use a ton of electrical energy given that they typically need a booster pump. There are certain devotees to the suction cleaner world and so it's somewhat of a Chevy vs Ford debate between suction and pressure cleaners (but we all know suction cleaners are better so just humor them ...).

Finally, your third type of cleaner is a robotic cleaner that is run from an electrical power supply and it generates it's own motion and suction with internal motors. They are super expensive, incredible energy-efficient, but are engineered for failure. You can see the link in my thread if you want to walk down memory lane with my saga of switching between suction cleaner then a robot then back to suction cleaner. Robot owners love their robots and are economic slaves to them ... you can't argue with a robot owner, you can only feel sorry for them ... but, like most cult-like mentalities, you have to simply let them be and hope they will come to their senses some day .... joking, sort of.

Anyway, now the fun part - you need to start experimenting with your automation system by changing pump speeds so that you can find the LOWEST possible pump speed that will run your SWG chlorinator, your robot and your heater. You'll likely need to keep the 3-way valve set to a position where it is fully open to the cleaner but slightly choking off the skimmer (like what you are seeing now). You'll not only want to make sure your equipment operates at this yet-to-be-determined low speed, but you also want to make sure your skimmer is pulling in water. You can create lots of different programs with lots of different speeds, but finding this new low speed is something you'll want to run your pool at most of the time. Use higher speeds for the spa as you want the jets to run with lots of force and bubbles. Which brings up the point that if you don't intend to use the heater to heat the pool, then the low speed you are looking for doesn't need to activate the heater, just the SWG, cleaner and skimmer. Once you find that speed, add 200 RPMs to it (if you are in RPM mode and not flow control mode) just to be safe and account for filter loading.

As for the automated valve, that valve turns when you activate SPA mode. It rotates the suction fully to the SPA drains which is what you want. So when it is in spa mode, the other side of the suction line with the skimmer and cleaner is irrelevant.

Finally a pro-tip, you want to get one of these if you don't already have one -


Putting a leaf canister on the hoses that connect your cleaner to the wall port is a good idea to make sure that nothing large gets sucked into your suction line that could potentially cause clogged plumbing. It also keeps your pumps strainer basket very clean. You really want to avoid suction line clogs as they are PITA to fix ... ask me how I know??
Thank you, your advice is incredibly helpful so I very much appreciate it. Looks like you're not too far from me either being in Tucson. Hopefully you guys didn't get beaten by the same monsoon we did last weekend. Many of my neighbors are missing half the tiles on their roof.

A suction side cleaner! Good to know that. That's what most of the pools around here have in them so I'm glad to hear the previous owner of the pool did it right. I don't know what all he spent on it, but I've been told by others that with current pool prices this pool we have would run about 80k 😲. I'm glad I didn't have to pay for it!

In regards to setting the pump speed, how will I know once I get too low? Will the SWG chlorinator be flashing all it's red lights or just not turn on in general? The robot is an obvious one since I can visually tell when that's not working.

I don't use the heater to heat the pool, only the spa, so I guess that's an easy one.

Once I find the correct lowest speed for the pool pump, is there a rule of thumb then for how I adjust the high speed pump for when it's in high speed mode?

I went ahead and ordered one of those leaf canisters. I'm surprised I didn't think about that. I say that because I'd always wondered what would happen if that thing managed to suck up something that could potentially clog the pipes. I'll save myself the future trouble!
 
Pool build prices have been insane the last few years due to the pandemic and inflation. I’m looking at your equipment pad and it looks like the previous owner spent a lot of money on some useless equipment, namely the UV sterilizer and what looks like an ozone generator on the back wall. Neither of those are needed for a properly managed residential pool and so it looks like they got snookered by a PB into buying that stuff. You don’t have to do anything about it now but you can read through TFPs many articles and wikis on them. Eventually you can simply remove them and save yourself the expense of running them. They spent all that money on useless equipment but didn’t put a privacy wall around the equipment … what an eye-sore looking at that from the pool deck. That’s something you can add when you are ready.

As for the SWG, if you look at it you’ll see a series of LED lights on it. One of them is for the flow switch. If the flow is too low, it will turn red and the SWG will stop generating chlorine. It will report back to the automation panel that you have an error.

I sincerely suggest you gather up all the info/manuals the previous owner left for the pool equipment and read through it all carefully. You need to learn how to use your pool equipment because it looks like you have a fairly extensive setup with the automation panel and IntelliValves. Feel free to ask as many questions as you like as we have plenty of experts on the forum that know a lot about Pentair automation.
 
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Pool build prices have been insane the last few years due to the pandemic and inflation. I’m looking at your equipment pad and it looks like the previous owner spent a lot of money on some useless equipment, namely the UV sterilizer and what looks like an ozone generator on the back wall. Neither of those are needed for a properly managed residential pool and so it looks like they got snookered by a PB into buying that stuff. You don’t have to do anything about it now but you can read through TFPs many articles and wikis on them. Eventually you can simply remove them and save yourself the expense of running them. They spent all that money on useless equipment but didn’t put a privacy wall around the equipment … what an eye-sore looking at that from the pool deck. That’s something you can add when you are ready.

As for the SWG, if you look at it you’ll see a series of LED lights on it. One of them is for the flow switch. If the flow is too low, it will turn red and the SWG will stop generating chlorine. It will report back to the automation panel that you have an error.

I sincerely suggest you gather up all the info/manuals the previous owner left for the pool equipment and read through it all carefully. You need to learn how to use your pool equipment because it looks like you have a fairly extensive setup with the automation panel and IntelliValves. Feel free to ask as many questions as you like as we have plenty of experts on the forum that know a lot about Pentair automation.
Thanks for that info!

I agree, the previous homeowner did splurge quite a bit on some of it. I'm not surprised though because he was the same way with the rest of the house. A lot of over-the-top and unnecessary stuff, but I suppose I shouldn't complain.

Fortunately I managed to locate all the manuals for everything he installed. I'll go through them, I just needed some basic guidance on what I'm doing here, but you've given me that. I'll read through the manuals and the info on this site to see what I can figure out on my own. For instance, I would have never known that I didn't need the UV sterilizer. I thought those things were needed with a salt water pool to kill the bad bacteria in the pool. Shows what I know though!

I'm pretty upset there is no privacy wall around the equipment, but that's my fall / winter project. I'm going to build one myself to keep it out of sight and out of the sun.
 
Keep all your questions here and many can help.

@Jimrahbe @ajw22 can help with the automation center, equipment, and any ScreenLogic questions you might have.

For general pool care, there is no one better than @YippeeSkippy and @Texas Splash

@proavia already posted some great links, especially the signature setup info. You really want to get all of your equipment info in a signature so people can get a quick snapshot of what you have.

There are many construction experts on here as well but if you need anyone to help you spend money on your pool to make it BLING! then @kimkats is a gal to have on your side. In her world, there is no such thing as a “credit limit” 😂

And finally, @woodyp will tell you where we keep all the really good secret margarita recipes …

Welcome to TFP :wave:
 
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Keep all your questions here and many can help.

@Jimrahbe @ajw22 can help with the automation center, equipment, and any ScreenLogic questions you might have.

For general pool care, there is no one better than @YippeeSkippy and @Texas Splash

@proavia already posted some great links, especially the signature setup info. You really want to get all of your equipment info in a signature so people can get a quick snapshot of what you have.

There are many construction experts on here as well but if you need anyone to help you spend money on your pool to make it BLING! then @kimkats is a gal to have on your side. In her world, there is no such thing as a “credit limit” 😂

And finally, @woodyp will tell you where we keep all the really good secret margarita recipes …

Welcome to TFP :wave:
and what about @mknauss for testing and pool water balancing and algae expert!!!!!!
 
and what about @mknauss for testing and pool water balancing and algae expert!!!!!!

The Marty-Bot (@mknauss) needs no introduction. He is scanning posts 24/7 and will assimilate newcomers when he sees fit -

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