Polaris troubles, what else to check

[Carusoswi]

My Polaris most resembles the 380, but it came with a dual chamber collection bag.
It used to zip around my pool, climb walls, work its way up and over steps, etc. Lately, it moves very slowly, and, if it attempts to climb a wall, will stall a few feet up and just sit their until the backflow (or whatever you call it) kicks in and pulls it away. Then, the process starts all over again.

Also, the back end tends to float off the bottom. Moving the float all the way forward does not eliminate the problem. I took the float completely off, and that seems to help, but it still seems to have little power.

This afternoon, I totally disassembled it. After removing the lower body, I held it over the return outlet that normally feeds the polaris to blow out any possible obstructions in the jets. I did not disconnect the short hoses that lead to the jets, but cannot imagine that they would be clogged.

Put it all back together, tried it, it seemed a bit better, but still slow, still will not climb, still cannot keep the rear end down on the pool floor unless I remove the float completely.

This is my third Polaris, I started with the 280, but upgraded as I grew tired of constantly replacing bearings (especially those that are in the small drive wheel).

Then, I went to whatever the newest one was, similar to the 380, but the upper body was in two parts. Worked fine for years, but finally, the lower body had literally worn away in spots from incidental contact with the pool's floor, walls, and steps.

I still have it, but have not tried it in years.

This newest model is only a few years old, and, IMO, should be working much better at this young age than it is.

I ordered new tires, but doubt that is really the problem.

Any advice on what else I should look at would be most appreciative.

Caruso

 

[DSK]

I would start at the wall outlet from the booster pump. Make sure the pressure coming out is good when booster pump is up running. If that’s seems good check the connectors and the Little mesh baskets line the lines. Also there is that blow Off spring part right there at the wall that may be allowing to much pressure out. As far as the unit make sure the weight inside hasn’t moved.

 

[Carusoswi]

I would start at the wall outlet from the booster pump. Make sure the pressure coming out is good when booster pump is up running. If that’s seems good check the connectors and the Little mesh baskets line the lines. Also there is that blow Off spring part right there at the wall that may be allowing to much pressure out. As far as the unit make sure the weight inside hasn’t moved.

Thank you for your reply. The pressure is good from the booster pump. There has always been a bit of water escaping from that pressure protection valve on the connector. Maybe I should block that valve. I do maintain that little wire inline strainer basket to make certain that it is clear of debris. As I mentioned, I totally disassembled the unit to check the three little jets and blow them out (with water from the connection point at the wall with the booster motor running). As for the weight, I found no weight. What does it look like and where should it be located inside the unit? I wonder if it is possible for that weight to have escaped from the unit. Please let me know. Thanks for your advice.

Caruso

 

[Carusoswi]

Thank you for your reply. The pressure is good from the booster pump. There has always been a bit of water escaping from that pressure protection valve on the connector. Maybe I should block that valve. I do maintain that little wire inline strainer basket to make certain that it is clear of debris. As I mentioned, I totally disassembled the unit to check the three little jets and blow them out (with water from the connection point at the wall with the booster motor running). As for the weight, I found no weight. What does it look like and where should it be located inside the unit? I wonder if it is possible for that weight to have escaped from the unit. Please let me know. Thanks for your advice.

Caruso

So, reading elsewhere online, another user posted that removing the screw-in portion of that pressure relief valve and replacing it with a plug solved his problem. So, I bought a "blank" 1" plastic plug which fit perfectly. Screwed it in, no more water escaping, as the valve is deleted.

The Polaris is moving, but not at the rate it should be, and it still stalls when it should be climbing walls. Also, runs fine without the float, but the rear end will rise away from the pool floor when the float is installed.

I am at a loss.

Any further suggestions appreciated.

Thanks.

Caruso

 

[SDor]

All the symptoms point to lack of water pressure. Either the sweep isn't getting enough pressure upstream (pump, hose, strainer), or there's an internal obstruction or leak in the sweep.

The rear end lifting is because the suction going into the bag is not strong enough or the rear jet needs to be redirected or is not strong enough (or combination of these).

I had similar issues when an internal hose came loose.

 

[Carusoswi]

Chicagoland:

Thank you for your helpful reply. I have checked all the items you mentioned. All is good. There is plenty of pressure throughout the system (actually, too much pressure such that I back it down via the valve at the return line coming from the booster pump), internal hoses are all secure, plenty of water coming through the unit, and that reverse valve is very sprightly in its operation.

I took it apart again, today. Read below for what I tried.

I read somewhere else online that a user with similar symptoms plugged that pressure relief valve to solve his problem. This morning, I went to my local pool store to buy a plug that would fit where the valve screws into the fitting. He didn't have a plug that fit, but suggested I buy a 1-inch plastic plug at the hardware store. Plug was $1.50, and pressure valve is no more.

This attempted solution did not improve my unit's performance at all. While there, I asked whether the unit had a weight in the bottom as someone had mentioned. He's an old timer (like me), and said definitely there was not.

Well, I found the weight. It's the 1" by approximately 3" piece that sits on the lower body just behind the large tube that contains the three jets. Curiosity got the better of me, and I pulled it out. It is held in place only with a big dab of silicone "glue" into which its tab-like foot is placed. I have to say I was a bit amused and at the same time disappointed at the cheapness of that method of securing it. We all pay a pretty good price for these units, and I would have expected a better-designed method of securing it, although, once everything is assembled, I don't really see it going anywhere. Once out, it wasn't going back without some fresh silicon glue, which I applied, and will now have to allow to cure before putting the unit back into the pool.

One thing I had not checked in my previous tear down of this unit was the little jet that directs incoming water onto the water wheel. I have a teeny precision screw drive that fit into that jet, so stuck it in there and moved it up and down a few times, then took the unit to the tap (this before I had reset the weight into fresh silicone glue) to thoroughly flush the unit (and especially that jet) with water.

New tires arrived via ups, but, comparing them the originals, I doubt that tires are the problem. I will probably first test with my existing tires, and if all is well, will set these new tires aside for future use.

As for the rear end's tendency to float away from the bottom, I attached some lead split shot to some fishing line to provide additional weight, placed it into a small zip lock bag, made certain to press all the air out of the bag, then folded it into a small form and stuffed it behind the two plastic hoses at the back or the unit. It's an easy fix if it works, easy to reverse if it doesn't.

I had changed belts on my previous units, never this one. After two rounds of disassembly/reassembly, I am an expert at working on this unit. If only I could pinpoint my problem.

I will post my results once the silicone has cured (if you haven't tired already of reading about my exploratory surgery).

Thanks, again, Chicagoland. I have had suspicions about every issue you mentioned, but believe that I have eliminated them as the cause.

Caruso

 

[Carusoswi]

Good news! My most recent tear down, during which I probed the water wheel input port with a small (very tiny precision) screw driver proved to solve the problem. Apparently, there was debris (probably DE discharged when the backwash gaskets were degraded) blocking that port. Clearing that port appears to have solved the problem.

The effectiveness of the weight I added at the rear of the body is debatable, but, I reinstalled the original tires, connected the unit and put it into the pool. It is now racing around the pool, climbing walls aggressively, and collecting debris (a substantial amount of DE deposited on the bottom due to the leakage associated with the failed gaskets at my backwash valve), and performing a final cleanup of my pool.

Now, at last, I know that upon which I should focus should this problem recur in the future. I am so happy that I do not have to consider replacing this unit. I think that I would not have replaced it with yet another similar unit.

I had replaced the lower body on my previous unit because contact with pool surfaces had created holes in the lower body once, and yet again on a replacement for that lower body.

I have great respect for the basic design of these Polaris units (attachment of the weight element notwithstanding), but we all have our limits as to how often we will invest in replacement of these not inexpensive units.

I apologize for the length of my posts, but hope that what I have posted will assist others who face similar issues.

My pool dealer made a big deal (valid IMO) about making certain that the inline screen filter was clear of debris and that those three ports inside the large input tube were clear (not really pertinent to driving the machine), but he failed to alert me to that little waterwheel port that really drives the mechanism needs to be checked for obstruction.

My booster creates a lot of pressure (probably more than recommended). For now, I will let the unit run at its insane pace and judge the results. If anyone has comments relevant to this post, please contribute.

For now, I am a happy camper, and, if I find the results less than optimum, I can simply alter the valve setting at my booster pump output valve to reduce the pressure/speed of operation of my newly rejuvenated Polaris unit.

My thanks goes out to contributors to this thread. I hope what I have posted helps someone else frustrated by the performance of their Polaris, no matter the model.

Sincerely,

Caruso

 

[markayash]

Good news! My most recent tear down, during which I probed the water wheel input port with a small (very tiny precision) screw driver proved to solve the problem. Apparently, there was debris (probably DE discharged when the backwash gaskets were degraded) blocking that port. Clearing that port appears to have solved the problem.

The effectiveness of the weight I added at the rear of the body is debatable, but, I reinstalled the original tires, connected the unit and put it into the pool. It is now racing around the pool, climbing walls aggressively, and collecting debris (a substantial amount of DE deposited on the bottom due to the leakage associated with the failed gaskets at my backwash valve), and performing a final cleanup of my pool.

Now, at last, I know that upon which I should focus should this problem recur in the future. I am so happy that I do not have to consider replacing this unit. I think that I would not have replaced it with yet another similar unit.

I had replaced the lower body on my previous unit because contact with pool surfaces had created holes in the lower body once, and yet again on a replacement for that lower body.

I have great respect for the basic design of these Polaris units (attachment of the weight element notwithstanding), but we all have our limits as to how often we will invest in replacement of these not inexpensive units.

I apologize for the length of my posts, but hope that what I have posted will assist others who face similar issues.

My pool dealer made a big deal (valid IMO) about making certain that the inline screen filter was clear of debris and that those three ports inside the large input tube were clear (not really pertinent to driving the machine), but he failed to alert me to that little waterwheel port that really drives the mechanism needs to be checked for obstruction.

My booster creates a lot of pressure (probably more than recommended). For now, I will let the unit run at its insane pace and judge the results. If anyone has comments relevant to this post, please contribute.

For now, I am a happy camper, and, if I find the results less than optimum, I can simply alter the valve setting at my booster pump output valve to reduce the pressure/speed of operation of my newly rejuvenated Polaris unit.

My thanks goes out to contributors to this thread. I hope what I have posted helps someone else frustrated by the performance of their Polaris, no matter the model.

Sincerely,

Caruso

I have also use a car or compressed air and blown all the hoels are, you are right they are picky..Mine would lock up amd if I rolled it backward for an inch it would work again..Pretty much replaced everything I could find and it still did it.

 

[Tom Jensen]

If you get any debris in your in line filter, you might have an issue with your pool pump filter.

 

[Carusoswi]

Tom:

I did have an issue with the valve that switches between backwash and pool return. I was alerted to this problem by observing DE discharge into the pool when recharging DE after backwashing. It is a problem I have encountered previously. Mine is an Anthony pool build in 1978, and has a push/pull backwash valve. There are two discs mounted on a rod that control water flow depending on whether the valve is in the up or down position. These are fitted with gaskets, one of which must break and disappear every decade or so. No doubt some DE or perhaps other debris made it past the inline screen of the Polaris feed hose and into the unit.

I, of course, have replaced both gaskets on the backwash valve, so no more DE into the pool. I missed the all important waterwheel jet when servicing my Polaris during its first disassembly/reassembly, but, as posted previously, have redone that effort and cleared that jet with good success.

My Polaris is now zipping around the pool and climbing walls to the water line effortlessly.

I suspect that my pressure is higher than recommended as I closed off and eliminated the pressure relief valve.

Polaris may have reasons for their pressure recommendations, but I see no harm in exceeding the Polaris recommendation. As I view it, no harm will come to my Polaris unit if pressure causes it to run faster than normal, and its effectiveness is in the eye of this beholder who, at this time, is a happy camper. Time will tell.

Having thoroughly acquainted myself with the innards of this unit, I see no reason to cut back on the pressure.

The added aggressiveness with which my unit now runs has allowed me to eliminate that backup valve that seemed to entangle my hose more than it served to pull my Polaris from its situation when stuck at a step. Now, my Polaris simply jumps up over steps and continues on its way.

For now, I am happy. Time will eventually rule on whether my choices are sound or not.

I am happy to entertain further comment pro or con.

I appreciate this forum. Much good information here.

Caruso

 

[SDor]

I think if it moves too fast, it doesn't have time to suck up debris. That is, it moves beyond the debris before the suction can get it up into the bag, but if it works for you I doubt it harms the unit.

 

[Carusoswi]

SDor:

Thanks for the reply. My Polaris is moving quickly, but it is also doing a good job of picking up debris from the bottom of the pool. Wednesday of this week, I checked the pool to find the Polaris stuck at the steps, which I thought odd since it had run almost two days without becoming stuck. Further inspection revealed that it had run over the sweep tail, and yet further inspection revealed that the rotating wheels had eaten through the hose causing a leak. I had to order a new hose, but, figured, in the interim, I would try running the unit without the hose. I tightened the tail screw to block as much water flow as possible (it isn't designed to allow total blockage), adjusted the direction of the jet through trial and error, and, now, my Polaris is running better without that tail hose than it did with, absolutely no getting stuck, no hose to be chewed.

I am aware of the purpose of that sweep hose, but I am now debating whether to install the replacement when it arrives. I have operated this pool since we moved into our house back in 1987. During that time, I have replaced three tail hoses, so, not terrible, but still aggravating.

I may leave it off moving forward.

Caruso