Plumbing flow rearrangement

[KDpoolguy]

Looking at rearranging plumbing of return side at pad for 2 reasons-flow arrangement thru pool/spa and a leak.

1) Flow arrangement: Return is setup so a check valve (see bottom of image) shares return to pool and (thru check valve) sends a small amount of water to spa for spillover. This annoys due to Ph increase issues and I don’t want to listen to fountain-sound all the time. I want to add a on/off ball valve (circled in Red on image bottom). Any objections?

2) The return side also sways rather a concerning amount and no doubt has caused the leak at the heater (see other red circle in upper left of image). I tried to anchor with some zip ties but don’t think that’ll last.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Kevin,

The only way the spa can get water through that check valve, in the pool mode, is if the Return valve above is mis-adjusted.. What I suggest you do is set up the Spillway circuit in your EasyTouch and adjust the Return valve so that in the pool mode all the water goes to the pool and in the spa mode all the water goes to the Spa.. Then when you turn on the spillway (or schedule it) the system will suck water from the pool and send it to the spa. This will keep the water in the spa fresh and let you turn the spillway on and off as you want.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[KDpoolguy]

Thanks Jim,
I may not be seeing what you are, but the spillway selection seems to be set up in a way I’m not familiar with-was likely done this way to have the spillway/fountain run ‘gently’ all the time.
Let me try to explain what I see. If you see the return lines to the spa, and to the pool has that ‘shared’ line with the check valve in the middle. So when the valve is OFF to spa, water goes to the pool returns and to the spa through that check valve-I can see the water going through the check valve.
So the spillway has a elegant ‘gentle’ flow over the stacked stone as a fountain-like-feature. It’s effectively 70% to pool, 30% to spa. I don’t want this, and think adding a ball valve would solve it-so water doesn’t go through that check valve. If I want this ‘gentle’ spillover I’ll adjust the ball valve.
I can change the Jandy return valve to supply 100% from pool and return 100% to spa, to do the ‘full’ spillover as you mention, so I don’t see this as a valve problem.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Kevin,

Your ball valve idea will work just fine, but when you want the gentle flow to turn on or off, you will have to manually turn it .. If you adjust the Return valve from 70/30 to all Spa or all Pool and set up the Spillover circuit, you can schedule a full spillover for once a day, for 30 minutes, to keep the spa water fresh and you use the pumps speed to control the amount of flow over the spillway. You could set it up a Full Spillover speed for flushing the spa.. and a Slow Spillover speed when you just want to hear the trickle..

The valve set to 70/30 is a standard way to run the system without automation. With automation it would normally be set to 100/100.

That said, if you are happy with it the way it is, that works for me.. I was just trying to give you another option.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[duraleigh]

If you proceed, I would suggest a Jandy valve instead of a plastic ball valve......they break rather quickly (couple of years)

 

[KDpoolguy]

If you proceed, I would suggest a Jandy valve instead of a plastic ball valve......they break rather quickly (couple of years)

That’s excellent advise, this pad is directly facing the western sky and gets hammered by sun, so I can see how my $12 ball valve idea was not well thought out. Just ordered the $40 2-way Jandy valve.

 

[KDpoolguy]

If you adjust the Return valve from 70/30 to all Spa or all Pool and set up the Spillover circuit, you can schedule a full spillover for once a day, for 30 minutes, to keep the spa water fresh and you use the pumps speed to control the amount of flow over the spillway. You could set it up a Full Spillover speed for flushing the spa.. and a Slow Spillover speed when you just want to hear the trickle..

Jim, that’s exactly how I want to set it up. Off to EasyTouch school I go!
Can’t I just remove the check valve entirely? Seems to me it’s only there to get flow to the spa in this arrangement. If I do that, I couldn’t get the ‘gentle’ 70/30 anymore (automated Jandy valve only allowing 2 settings)—-so maybe adding the ball valve/Jandy 2-way valve is the best bet to allow 70/30 when I want it?
I guess what I’m saying is (in this arrangement) this check valve isn’t absolutely necessary for, say, preventing backflow/water level drain back to pool.

I’m up to completely rearrange this return side as it shakes and sways a lot and is causing a leak at the heater bulkhead. I’d have to buy a new Jandy 3- way valve too, and figure out if I then may need to anchor the PVC area closest to the stucco wall (where the SWCG is now) to conceivably prevent the shaking.

 

[KDpoolguy]

1) Okay, next on the docket. My spa pump (Hayward Super Pump) is leaking. Seems to be seeping out of the cover. I opened the pump cover and as the water gushed out I quickly realized it’s because the spa is elevated. Makes sense why it’s leaking, there’s water in there all the time. I couldn’t really check anything except to see the gasket was in good condition and had silicone lube on it. Tightened down and will check for leaks today, Does anyone have a way that they drain down their elevated spa? Maybe a check valve at the jet pump inlets as another option?! I guess I can backfill into the pool but it’s a massive spa and needs to be almost empty to be at the pump’s static level.

2) I’ve repaired the leaks at the filter-new valve gaskets and gasket o-ring, cleaned off globs of silicone with WD40 (works amazingly well!) and properly tapped around the band with a rubber mallet as I tightened with a new bolt/spring/washers. Sadly the cartridges are ancient and so deteriorated I’m certain they let a lot of fine particulate through-another purchase to be had. I really will consider replacing this filter with a 300sf Pentair cartridge filter in the coming years.

3) Next on deck is finding and repairing the leak at the heater’s CPVC header. I thought it was from the threaded bulkhead connection on the outlet, now I think it’s that and the drain plug right below.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jim, that’s exactly how I want to set it up. Off to EasyTouch school I go!
Can’t I just remove the check valve entirely? Seems to me it’s only there to get flow to the spa in this arrangement. If I do that, I couldn’t get the ‘gentle’ 70/30 anymore (automated Jandy valve only allowing 2 settings)—-so maybe adding the ball valve/Jandy 2-way valve is the best bet to allow 70/30 when I want it?
I guess what I’m saying is (in this arrangement) this check valve isn’t absolutely necessary for, say, preventing backflow/water level drain back to pool.

I’m up to completely rearrange this return side as it shakes and sways a lot and is causing a leak at the heater bulkhead. I’d have to buy a new Jandy 3- way valve too, and figure out if I then may need to anchor the PVC area closest to the stucco wall (where the SWCG is now) to conceivably prevent the shaking.

Kevin,

If you use your EasyTouch to control your spillover, you can, if you want, eliminate the check valve all together... You can can set up two speeds for your Spillway.. One fast speed (say 2500RPM) to clean and refresh the water in the Spa, and another speed (say 1000 RPM) to slowly flow water over the spillway. You would have to set the exact speeds to match your plumbing..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[KDpoolguy]

Just touching on my progress. My equipment pad was soaked with leaks. I’ve fixed them all, except for a bulkhead union at the heater which is drenched in penetrating oil and still won’t budge loose. Tried oil filter wrench and big channel locks to no avail.
Finally repaired a filter drain plug leak yesterday which required me to use chisels to break apart and remove the old one which lord knows if it’s ever been removed before. I returned the Jandy valve and gonna see if the Pentair is a better fit. Also chose the Magic Plastics check valve.

 

[cfherrman]

Pour hot water on stuck union, don't burn yourself you can always get hotter water.

 

[KDpoolguy]

Well, I’ve got a few days off and looking for a distraction. This leak at the heater header is the last remaining (obvious) leak at the pad. I’ve tried everything to unstick the Unions. Poured hot water, sprayed lithium grease, penetrating lube—the works!
This leak is on the ‘out’ flow. I can’t truly say whether the leak is coming from the union bulkhead-style coupling or from the drain bolt directly below this. The drain plug is full of glue-gunk leading me to believe it’s been a problem before. The leak from the union also makes sense as this run of supply pipe torques quite a lot and I’ve fashioned some straps to try to keep the movement to a minimum, but likely too it’s just a worn or poorly lubed gasket.
My idea is maybe I do need to replace the entire header? Not looking forward to another $250 and afternoon of repairs, but I just can’t be sure, and for the life of me cannot remove this union.

Here’s a picture.

 

[KDpoolguy]

UPDATE: Seems all fixed. Hot water and penetrating lube (not the spray kind) and a new oil wrench from harbor freight and extra hands. Voila.
Turns out the union wasn’t the issue, but the drain plug bolt below. Removed it, and did my copper/CPVC trick of gobs of Teflon paste and Teflon tape on the threads
So far, so good. Gonna wait for daylight and evaporation to see what we got.