Please Review my AGP Specs! :-)

Oct 15, 2012
61
Southern KS
I'm apologizing ahead of time, because I don't post enough to know the correct etiquette for posting new threads :) I'm just excited because after years of planning & talking, we're finally moving forward with a landscaping/excavating project that will include an above ground pool! However, before I place my order for the pool, I would like some feedback, especially if you see any red flags. Also, I want to do it right the first time, so if I need to upgrade the pump (for example) I want to do that up front. Here are my pool specs -- please let me know what you think!
  • Citadel by Trevi
  • NBS (Non-Buttress System)
  • 9" Resin Ledges
  • 6" Resin Uprights
  • 12' x 24' x 52" Oval
  • 4/30 Pro-Rated Warranty
  • Skimmer - Hayward wide mouth
  • Material - coated steel
  • Liner - 20GA overlap (upgrade??)
  • Pool Pad
  • Foam Pool Cover
  • Pump - 21" Sand Filter w/ 1-1/2 HP (upgrade??)
Should I add anything else? Maybe a chlorinator? Also, there's a cheaper model that has 7" Painted Galvanized Steel Top Ledges & 6" Painted Galvanized Steel Uprights. Is it worth saving the $$$? Thanks in advance for your help! I've always had such a great experience diving into this forum!
 
1- Get a VSP pump if you can afford one
2 - I hope by Chlorinator you are referring to SWG and not that ”thing” but to put Trichlor. If a it is a SWG then YES get one.

What filter you getting?
Are you getting a heater?
 
1- Get a VSP pump if you can afford one
2 - I hope by Chlorinator you are referring to SWG and not that ”thing” but to put Trichlor. If a it is a SWG then YES get one.

What filter you getting?
Are you getting a heater?
Thank you so much for your quick reply! Well, I'll do my best to answer your questions. I'm purchasing the pool from royal swimming pools website, and it gives me the option of purchasing the frame, or the entire kit. I was planning on going with the kit, to make things easier. Within that kit, you can just various upgrade options. So, on to your questions / comments:
  • VSP Pump: There's an option for a Hayward S210T Filter w/ 1.5 HP PowerFlo Matrix 2-Speed Pump S210T932S. Again, the "stock" kit has the 21" Sand Filter with 1-1/2 HP Pump (brand varies) as the original choice.
  • Chlorinator: There's an option for a Hayward CL220 Large Capacity (9lbs) Automatic Chlorinator (that's not an SWG, I don't think). Will that work? Or the PoolTux 28k Gallon Salt Chlorine Generator?
  • Filter: Did I answer your question above with the Hayward S210T Filter w/ 1.5 HP PowerFlo Matrix 2-Speed Pump S210T932S?
  • Heater: Wasn't planning on it at this point. I thought maybe I could add that later as the funds allow. We're in KS, so pools don't take long to warm up.
Thoughts?
 
I'm apologizing ahead of time, because I don't post enough to know the correct etiquette for posting new threads :) I'm just excited because after years of planning & talking, we're finally moving forward with a landscaping/excavating project that will include an above ground pool! However, before I place my order for the pool, I would like some feedback, especially if you see any red flags. Also, I want to do it right the first time, so if I need to upgrade the pump (for example) I want to do that up front. Here are my pool specs -- please let me know what you think!
  • Citadel by Trevi
  • NBS (Non-Buttress System)
Your post is great, no worries!!

  • 9" Resin Ledges
  • 6" Resin Uprights
  • 12' x 24' x 52" Oval
  • 4/30 Pro-Rated Warranty
  • Skimmer - Hayward wide mouth
  • Material - coated steel
Great choice with resin, and yes to wide mouth skimmer!

  • Liner - 20GA overlap (upgrade??)
  • Pool Pad
If you like a thicker MIL/GA liner, I would get the thickest you can afford, it's a little harder to install, but generally much more resistant to puncture!

  • Foam Pool Cover
  • Pump - 21" Sand Filter w/ 1-1/2 HP (upgrade??)
The Sand Filter can always be bigger :D (I LOVE our sand filter), but your setup sounds fine. Is it 2-speed pump?

Should I add anything else? Maybe a chlorinator? Also, there's a cheaper model that has 7" Painted Galvanized Steel Top Ledges & 6" Painted Galvanized Steel Uprights. Is it worth saving the $$$? Thanks in advance for your help! I've always had such a great experience diving into this forum!
Definitely NO on the chlorinator UNLESS you are referring to a SWG (Salt Water chlorine Generator). Personally I wouldn't do the steel top ledges, the uprights could be okay, but might as well go resin for longevity if it's feasible :D

Agreed, I LOVE TFP!!
 
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Are you installing this yourself? If so, maybe get a J-hook liner. If not, then let your installer deal with getting your overlap straight.

Foam cove is nice too.

Resin uprights and rails are better

100% Salt Water Chlorine Generator and do not go near the chlorinator

It looks like you have an option for a 2 speed pump. You want a Variable Speed Pump, not a 2 speed, if you can get one.

I'm not sure what the 4/30 Pro-Rated Warranty entails, but most warranties turn out to be worth less than the paper they are printed on. If this is their standard warranty that comes with the pool, then fine. But I would not pay extra for it - especially a prorated one.
 
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I'm apologizing ahead of time, because I don't post enough to know the correct etiquette for posting new threads :)
You do the best you can. If we need some answers, we'll (kindly) ask. :)

My $0.02.

VS pump
SWG
Big filter (21 inch is big for you, bigger would need to be cleaned even less)

27 ish mil liner to possibly save some future rips from happening.

The more resin the better. Archeologists will find it one day and assume there was a metal pool there.

Keep. Us. Posted. :epds:
 
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:party: at @Musmin2415 HOUSE this summer!!!!! OH YEAH!!! I can't wait to see the first pics!

Liner - 20GA overlap (upgrade??)
I would get the j-hook or unibead instead. I just don't like the look of the overlap as it does not look finished to me.
Foam cove is nice too.
I would even say necessary as it makes installing so much easier as you don't have to mess with the sand as much to try to build it up.

Equipment-get sch 40 pvc pipe and unions and valves! You want a union on either side of all pieces of equipment. You also want a valve under the return and the skimmer so you don't have to lower the water each and every time you want to do something with the equipment. Make sure to build in a filter bypass for when you want to vacuum to waste. It will also need a valve to open/shut as needed.
 

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The Sand Filter can always be bigger :D (I LOVE our sand filter), but your setup sounds fine. Is it 2-speed pump?

Definitely NO on the chlorinator UNLESS you are referring to a SWG (Salt Water chlorine Generator).
I do have the option of upgrading to a 2-speed. Never had one on my previous (cheaper) agp's. And I hadn't really thought about an SWG, so maybe i'll do some research! Thanks for your feedback!!!
 
Are you installing this yourself? If so, maybe get a J-hook liner. If not, then let your installer deal with getting your overlap straight.

Foam cove is nice too.

Resin uprights and rails are better

100% Salt Water Chlorine Generator and do not go near the chlorinator

It looks like you have an option for a 2 speed pump. You want a Variable Speed Pump, not a 2 speed, if you can get one.

I'm not sure what the 4/30 Pro-Rated Warranty entails, but most warranties turn out to be worth less than the paper they are printed on. If this is their standard warranty that comes with the pool, then fine. But I would not pay extra for it - especially a prorated one.
Yes, at this point I'm (unfortunately) installing this myself. I have this thing about always trying something once -- I'll probably regret this one, though. At least the landscaper has a sample of the pool installation manual and is going to level everything for me.

I'm not sure they have the option for the VSP. If a 2-speed isn't worth it, maybe I should just take the "stock" one that they give me and order a different one?

And nope, not paying extra for the warranty. Thanks for all the feedback!! This is great!
 
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You do the best you can. If we need some answers, we'll (kindly) ask. :)

My $0.02.

VS pump
SWG
Big filter (21 inch is big for you, bigger would need to be cleaned even less)

27 ish mil liner to possibly save some future rips from happening.

The more resin the better. Archeologists will find it one day and assume there was a metal pool there.

Keep. Us. Posted. :epds:
Thank you so much!! Definitely worth more than $.02 :) Kinda like a previous comment I made on another reply regarding the VSP -- I don't think there's an option in the "kit" to upgrade to a VSP, so I'll either need to go with a 2-speed, or accept the "stock" one and upgrade myself. I'll check though.
 
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:party: at @Musmin2415 HOUSE this summer!!!!! OH YEAH!!! I can't wait to see the first pics!


I would get the j-hook or unibead instead. I just don't like the look of the overlap as it does not look finished to me.

I would even say necessary as it makes installing so much easier as you don't have to mess with the sand as much to try to build it up.

Equipment-get sch 40 pvc pipe and unions and valves! You want a union on either side of all pieces of equipment. You also want a valve under the return and the skimmer so you don't have to lower the water each and every time you want to do something with the equipment. Make sure to build in a filter bypass for when you want to vacuum to waste. It will also need a valve to open/shut as needed.
Ah @kimkats .... I was wondering if you were going to show up!! lol! You actually commented on my last post regarding this same project! (Probably at least a year ago now.)

I'll definitely look at the j-hook or unibead! Seems to be the general consensus.

Just being completely honest here, I'm going to have to dig into everything that you said on the pvc pipe and valves - lol! I'm definitely a newb, so I need to bookmark this for when I get to the point of installation and I start my youtube marathon of AGP installations. :)

As always, thank you so much!!!
 
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Yes, at this point I'm (unfortunately) installing this myself. I have this thing about always trying something once -- I'll probably regret this one, though. At least the landscaper has a sample of the pool installation manual and is going to level everything for me.

I'm not sure they have the option for the VSP. If a 2-speed isn't worth it, maybe I should just take the "stock" one that they give me and order a different one?

And nope, not paying extra for the warranty. Thanks for all the feedback!! This is great!
I love my 2-speed pump. A VSP would be great, but they’re quite a bit more expensive.

I run my 2-speed on low 99% of the time, and it’s virtually silent. On high (which would be the 1 speed equivalent speed) its quite loud, with an unnecessarily strong return jet coming into the pool.

I would at least get the 2-speed. I lasted 1 summer with my single speed before selling it and upgrading.
 
I do have the option of upgrading to a 2-speed. Never had one on my previous (cheaper) agp's. And I hadn't really thought about an SWG, so maybe i'll do some research! Thanks for your feedback!!!
With that large of a pool and chlorine prices what they are in most areas, it will likely be well spent $ Salt Water Chlorine Generators
 
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Thank you so much!! Definitely worth more than $.02 :) Kinda like a previous comment I made on another reply regarding the VSP -- I don't think there's an option in the "kit" to upgrade to a VSP, so I'll either need to go with a 2-speed, or accept the "stock" one and upgrade myself. I'll check though.


That is very likely, and a VSP a lot more of a cost difference from a single speed than a 2 speed.

A 2 speed pump is the same thing as a single speed pump, but with two speeds. Same type of technology. It is going to have the same approximate life span, and the same energy usage and noise levels as if you had plumbed in two single speed pumps, one at low speed and one at high speed, and ran them accordingly.

A VSP is an altogether different thing. A different kind of motor and controller. The motor itself is overall more efficient, quieter, and lasts longer. It is also much more expensive.

If they don't have a VSP as part of the package, or you don't want to pay for it (which is understandable, they are not cheap) then a 2-speed pump is still an great improvement over a single speed.
 
If they don't have a VSP as part of the package, or you don't want to pay for it (which is understandable, they are not cheap) then a 2-speed pump is still an great improvement over a single speed.
It is unfortunate the life span is a single speed pump is not that short. Even factoring I’m the inefficiency and noise of a single speed and my regret of buying one I find hard to justify replacing a working pump with a VSP. I wish I knew better when I bought mine.
 
Ah @kimkats .... I was wondering if you were going to show up!! lol! You actually commented on my last post regarding this same project! (Probably at least a year ago now.)

I'll definitely look at the j-hook or unibead! Seems to be the general consensus.

Just being completely honest here, I'm going to have to dig into everything that you said on the pvc pipe and valves - lol! I'm definitely a newb, so I need to bookmark this for when I get to the point of installation and I start my youtube marathon of AGP installations. :)

As always, thank you so much!!!
You can get by with the stock hoses for plumbing, and then upgrade to PVC at a later date, if the whole planning ahead of time is overwhelming. It is not that big of an effort to remove the hoses and re-plumb with PVC. I would go so far as to say it is a nice project for a Saturday morning (unless you have to crawl around under a deck to plumb yours like I do). By using hoses first, you can play around with your pump/filter position. Do you like the drain facing a certain direction, does having it too near the pool make opening it difficult, does the bump handle stick out in a bad place, can I reach my electric receptacle from where I put it, etc.

But by all means, once you are indeed happy with the filter location, definitely hard plumb it. It makes a huge difference, you flow rates will be a lot better.. As was said, unions and valves are your friends. You can always plug your return and skimmer to work on things, but it is a LOT easier just to turn a valve. Also, if you decide to go with the SWCG (which you really really should in my opinion) you will want to look at placement of that in relation to the filter, the electric, and the plumbing.

I took a look at the SWGC that you referenced as part of your package, and I am not thrilled with it. Again, my opinion only. It may functionally work great for all I know. It may generate chlorine like a champ and last 20 years between needing to be replaced. I don't know about that. Here is what bugs me about it.

1) It HAS to be mounted vertically right off the the return - that is not necessarily a bad thing, unless you don't want it there. My in mounted in the same spot, but my power cord reaches and I am OK with it. I made a conscious decision to buy on that went there. There reason is, a cell generates hydrogen gas in addition to hypochlorous acid (chlorine). When the cell is located in a vertical position just below your return, even if water stops flowing while the cell is on, the hydrogen will flow upwards and out of your return. If you mount a cell horizontally in your plumbing, it requires a flow sensor for safety. That way if the water stops flowing it turns off before it turns into a mini-Hindenburg. Hayward offers two different cells, one with the flow sensor for horizontal applications, and one without, for vertical at the return only. It looks like the one you referenced does not have that option, and instead has to be mounted vertically right before the return. I took a closer look at it, and the PoolTux does seem to have a flow sensor, but it still states in the installation manual that it has to be mounted right off of the return. That is odd.

2) This is sort of related to part 1. Your SWCG has a timer that plugs into the electric outlet, then a "power box" that plugs into the timer, and then the cell plugs into the power box. There is ONE outlet on the timer, for the SWCG. The instructions actually show the filter plugged in elsewhere with a note that says "we recommend setting a timer for the filter to have the same cycle as the SWGC" or something to that effect. This means you need two timers, that you need to keep in sync. That is likely why they have a vertical only cell, it is possible (maybe even probable) to have the cell on with the pump off. The Hayward has a control box. The box plugs into the electric outlet and has a timer built into it. The box then has leads that power the cell, and an outlet on it where you plug in your pump. The timer on the box controls both the pump and the cell, so when one is on, the other is on too. I guess you could make a case for more flexibility in the separate set up, so you can run your pump without running your cell. But in my case, my cell is the driving factor. I need to run my system more for chlorine generation than I do for filtering.

3) Finally, I just don't like the control panel on it. Too simple. Just some led lights - one for power, one for low salt, one for low flow, and one for "error". It also just has a 5 position led for measuring output. The Hayward actually has a display, and will tell you voltages, salt concentration, and if necessary error codes that point you to the issue. It also has a much more granular Cl output adjustment.
 
You can get by with the stock hoses for plumbing, and then upgrade to PVC at a later date, if the whole planning ahead of time is overwhelming. It is not that big of an effort to remove the hoses and re-plumb with PVC. I would go so far as to say it is a nice project for a Saturday morning (unless you have to crawl around under a deck to plumb yours like I do). By using hoses first, you can play around with your pump/filter position. Do you like the drain facing a certain direction, does having it too near the pool make opening it difficult, does the bump handle stick out in a bad place, can I reach my electric receptacle from where I put it, etc.

But by all means, once you are indeed happy with the filter location, definitely hard plumb it. It makes a huge difference, you flow rates will be a lot better.. As was said, unions and valves are your friends. You can always plug your return and skimmer to work on things, but it is a LOT easier just to turn a valve. Also, if you decide to go with the SWCG (which you really really should in my opinion) you will want to look at placement of that in relation to the filter, the electric, and the plumbing.

I took a look at the SWGC that you referenced as part of your package, and I am not thrilled with it. Again, my opinion only. It may functionally work great for all I know. It may generate chlorine like a champ and last 20 years between needing to be replaced. I don't know about that. Here is what bugs me about it.

1) It HAS to be mounted vertically right off the the return - that is not necessarily a bad thing, unless you don't want it there. My in mounted in the same spot, but my power cord reaches and I am OK with it. I made a conscious decision to buy on that went there. There reason is, a cell generates hydrogen gas in addition to hypochlorous acid (chlorine). When the cell is located in a vertical position just below your return, even if water stops flowing while the cell is on, the hydrogen will flow upwards and out of your return. If you mount a cell horizontally in your plumbing, it requires a flow sensor for safety. That way if the water stops flowing it turns off before it turns into a mini-Hindenburg. Hayward offers two different cells, one with the flow sensor for horizontal applications, and one without, for vertical at the return only. It looks like the one you referenced does not have that option, and instead has to be mounted vertically right before the return. I took a closer look at it, and the PoolTux does seem to have a flow sensor, but it still states in the installation manual that it has to be mounted right off of the return. That is odd.

2) This is sort of related to part 1. Your SWCG has a timer that plugs into the electric outlet, then a "power box" that plugs into the timer, and then the cell plugs into the power box. There is ONE outlet on the timer, for the SWCG. The instructions actually show the filter plugged in elsewhere with a note that says "we recommend setting a timer for the filter to have the same cycle as the SWGC" or something to that effect. This means you need two timers, that you need to keep in sync. That is likely why they have a vertical only cell, it is possible (maybe even probable) to have the cell on with the pump off. The Hayward has a control box. The box plugs into the electric outlet and has a timer built into it. The box then has leads that power the cell, and an outlet on it where you plug in your pump. The timer on the box controls both the pump and the cell, so when one is on, the other is on too. I guess you could make a case for more flexibility in the separate set up, so you can run your pump without running your cell. But in my case, my cell is the driving factor. I need to run my system more for chlorine generation than I do for filtering.

3) Finally, I just don't like the control panel on it. Too simple. Just some led lights - one for power, one for low salt, one for low flow, and one for "error". It also just has a 5 position led for measuring output. The Hayward actually has a display, and will tell you voltages, salt concentration, and if necessary error codes that point you to the issue. It also has a much more granular Cl output adjustment.
The Pooltux SWG looks identical to my Solaxx, and is likely made by them.

There are 8 settings for output (not 5), it can be installed horizontally (mine is), and while not as user friendly there’s a tech manual for getting voltages/etc.

You can see my running review here:

There are obviously better tested SWGs out there, but at half the price of other brands I’ve been happy with this one so far.
 
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