Plaster repair always going to look noticeable?

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Return/light chip out=only chipping those areas down to the gunite. They do a "roughing up" of the rest of the pool but do NOT take it down to the gunite or much at all. This IS a cheaper way to get it done as it is a lot less labor. The reason for chipping to the gunite at the return and light area is those areas would stick out too much if they were not chipped out.

A full chip out is what you had done=more money due to more labor. BUT better in the long run if your wallet can take the hit.

Kim:kim:
 
Oh, so your old, weak plaster is what the new plaster is adhering to. Crazy. Whew, OK, mine was done right. And with any luck, it'll be my PG's wallet, not mine, but that is still TBD...

For the OP, it is already known that some of the plaster was not properly done. She has to insist on the full chip out, otherwise some other chunk may "bow in when you walked on it" somewhere down the line...
 
socks341968 said:
It's a full chip out. No way we'd let them get away with less than that at this point.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear it! I had to make sure just in case. We had one pool build where they put in the wrong plaster! They picked out and paid for the top level plaster with many extras like shells, extra beads, special mixture of beads, etc. The plaster that was installed was a plain, level one plaster with NO extras :shock: Turns out the PB had two plaster jobs that day. The trucks went to the wrong houses! Some one got a free up grade! The PB tried to do just the return and light chip out :( The pool owner had no idea the whys not so we were able to help out there.

Kim:kim:
 
Kim, I'm actually so glad you did say something because we probably wouldn't have thought about the difference or the future. You guys have been so helpful! We appreciate it so much. I love that I found this website as we were building our pool. We are going to have to go with a little different glass tile color because I was just informed they would not have it in before the middle of May. Go figure. I found a similar color that I'm sure will look great. May actually look better. We both plan on being here and watching them like a hawk. Seriously. It's a huge pool, how long do you think it will take them to chip it all out?
 
They chipped my pool out in one day. My whole job took a little over a week. Here's the schedule, except the tile blasting (can't remember which day they did that). They were on site for six or seven days (weekend intervened, plus a day or two juggling others' projects).

Drain Pool 10-30-17
Cut under tile 10-31-17
Chip Pool 11-1-17
Install Tile 11-3-17
Plaster pool 11-7-17
Acid wash and fill 11-8-17
 
You guys will not believe this. I've had my husband read all of this so he can understand where I'm coming from on my insistence for a full chip out. Apparently the PB told him that "We are going to chip out the hollow areas and replaster the whole pool". I explained why I'm not ok with that. It ALL has to be chipped out. No exceptions. It's so funny how wording is changed from day to day. I've pretty much made it known in as plain as language as I can, that NO how NO way will this be a partial chip out. I don't care if they think ANY of it is salvageable. It must all be gone. Okay, had to pause during the post as we just got off of the phone with them. It's a funny thing that the manufacturer's rep had come out here a couple of weeks ago to look at the pool. Apparently they are paying for half of the plaster. Makes me think they had a bad batch or something along those lines. We reiterated we will be happy with nothing less than a full chip out. No partials, no chipping around things and chipping out "hollow" areas and then applying a bond and then the plaster. Not happening. Have any of you heard of anything about a bond coat between the gunite and the new plaster? That was just something that a another pool company brought up. Also, we will be using our well water again, that is filtered to fill our pool. Our pool is approximately 30,000 gallons. We haven't asked for any compensation for the cost of water/electricity, and this will be the second time in two months that we've drained and refilled the pool. How much does it usually cost to fill a pool of that size? Again, I can't thank you guys enough for the information. We would have just gone with the partial chip out and then replastering. Probably leaving us in a total mess down the road. Ugh. Knowledge is power!
 
socks,

lots of great folks on TFP...really good advice.

First, I agree 100% on doing this now and not waiting, and in writing...

Next, a full-chip out is only acceptable...no telling what the material was like before and to have hollow areas ???

Finally, I would ask the PB to make 1000% sure that there is an experienced foreman on site during the entire process, and a minimum or 2-3 experienced techs', or, you will all be doing this again. I would also get in writing everything that they say to do to cover the proper curing and full warranty. I would even check into getting a qualified plaster inspector out to the site before the job is done. Yes, extra cost to you, but that money will be peanuts to you if you do not have the peace of mind you need to know this job was done correctly.

One last thing. People do better work for people they like. I would think of investing in 2-3 days of great lunches for the plaster crew. I bought fajitas twice for my tile guys and they actually took 1 full day longer bc they went slower and did some really great cuts. Either way, stay on top of them and watch every move...if something isn't right, get the foreman's attn...when they do good, let them know it too...

Good luck, tstexx
 

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Stick to your guns. You paid for a new pool, with a new, sound surface. You didn't get that. They still have to provide that. Not some half-baked repair job.

I don't know what the de-lamination was about, but there's no way they can now prove that the stuff that hasn't yet come apart (become hollow) never will. They have to take it all out and start over! I'm just re-venting, you already know all that.

It sounds like the PB is negotiating with the material supplier, and they cut a deal. Since he only got half, now the PB is trying to cut his losses by minimizing his labor. Too bad. You get a redo. They can duke it out over the loss.

I'm suing my PB for 100% of the replaster, and I'll be including water, salt, tile, and all startup expenses, including my labor (about $400 worth of brushing twice a day for two weeks!). It'll be fun to see what I get of that from a judge, but I'm certainly not going to feel bad about asking for it. What you don't get compensated for is your stress, loss of use, etc. You certainly have a right to actual expenses. Filling my pool was about $80. Salt, about $70. Tile was almost $900. And I paid a separate contractor for initial startup, that was $140. But I'm able to calculate my city water exactly, not sure how you'd do that with well water.

If I may... I will remind you of some previous advice. You need to start getting all this in writing if you haven't. You're already hearing the different versions, and now with your husband involved you're getting even more versions! What PB says to you. What he says to your husband. What you each say back. The very definition of "he said/she said!"

You can be very polite about it, and just tell them (as I did): "I won't be discussing this on the phone any longer. I'd feel much more comfortable if all our communications are in writing, so we keep everything clear between us. OK? Email is fine." And then if he still tries to call you, just politely end the conversation and say "Gotta go just now. Can you shoot that information over to me in an Email? Thanks a bunch."

My guy tried a call after I did that. I shut him down and it's been certified mail between us ever since. Unfortunately for him, half of my evidence is stuff that he put in writing (he's not very bright), so he can't back out of anything now.

I'm not saying you're heading for a big showdown. Hopefully, just by being firm, you'll get what you want. If he can push you around, and you let him, then he'll save himself some dough. That's probably all this is, he's giving it a shot, to see whether you'll cave or not. A lot of people do, so these guys tend to try.

It might put him off a bit, about the emailing, but too bad, you need to start a paper trail. And you and your husband need to be on the same page, and craft the written communications together. You won't be sorry if you have a paper trail and don't need it, but you'll be real sorry if you need it and don't have it!
 
Quote from Dirk: "my labor (about $400 worth of brushing twice a day for two weeks!). It'll be fun to see what I get of that from a judge, but I'm certainly not going to feel bad about asking for it."

Since I've been now maintaining our pool for over 2+ yrs, including brushing, netting, cleaning skimmer and pump baskets, bleach, m-acid and baking soda applications, hauling the robot shark in and out [bad on lower back], I think my wife owes my about $6-$8K at least. Now if you toss in all the anguish from owning and replacing a Hayward Ecostar and all the testing and electrical expenses, we're up to $12,000.00 minimum. Dirk, pls PM me and give me any suggestions I can pass onto wife...I'll cut you in on any %'s I successfully collect from you suggestions. :)

socks, good luck on your replaster...stay TFP strong !!!
 
tstex said:
Quote from Dirk: "my labor (about $400 worth of brushing twice a day for two weeks!). It'll be fun to see what I get of that from a judge, but I'm certainly not going to feel bad about asking for it."

Since I've been now maintaining our pool for over 2+ yrs, including brushing, netting, cleaning skimmer and pump baskets, bleach, m-acid and baking soda applications, hauling the robot shark in and out [bad on lower back], I think my wife owes my about $6-$8K at least. Now if you toss in all the anguish from owning and replacing a Hayward Ecostar and all the testing and electrical expenses, we're up to $12,000.00 minimum. Dirk, pls PM me and give me any suggestions I can pass onto wife...I'll cut you in on any %'s I successfully collect from you suggestions. :)

socks, good luck on your replaster...stay TFP strong !!!
Click to expand...

Oh, I'm not getting sucked into that. She's probably got her "mental ledger" all ready to go, which she's been formulating for years, no doubt with help from her coffee clutch, that would devastate any numbers you or I could ever hope to conjure up! ;)

It did feel silly as I was doing my math, but I figure if I pad my figures as much as I can, I can always negotiate down. Hard to go the other way. For example, if I end up in court, I'll be asking for punitive damages, too (for some law breaking my guy did). Those are especially hard to prove/collect in court, but if you don't ask for them in the paper work, the judge can't award them even if he wants to. That premise could be applied to any negotiation, really.

Shoot for the moon, settle for less...

- - - Updated - - -

What I was really getting at, because I caught myself doing this, was this weird mentality that I should be "nice" and not try to take advantage of this poor PB who has to redo all this work... boo hoo.

What I have to force myself to remember is: I did what I was supposed to do. I hired a professional. A licensed, bonded contractor. I didn't try to save some dough and take a chance and hire some guy workin' out of his pickup truck. I paid a fair price. I deserve to get what I paid for. Period. Not so nice people prey on nice people if we let 'em...
 
SOCKS!! :shock: unreal.............I am SO glad I said something. I have come to find I would rather say it and someone already know it then to take a chance they don't know! It sure paid for this time!!!!!

Will you be able to be there while they do the work? Do you know how to hold a hammer? I would be tap, tap, tapping all over that pool once all of the plaster is done to make sure there are NO hollow spots under the gunite! Better safe than sorry.

I am going to ping my go to person for plaster to see what he has to say about the "bonding" of the new plaster to the gunite. I will say that I don't think it will be necessary as they don't do any kind of bonding when the gunite is new so..............why would they need to bond if they remove all of the bad plaster?

:hugs: for having to go through this.

Oh price of water........When/if you have time call around (not sure who to call, sorry) and find out how much it would cost to truck in 30,000 gals of water! Write up a proposal for them to pay for it! I bet you they will "blink" when they see that! hehe

Kim:kim:
 
Kim brings up a great point, about making sure the problem wasn't the underlying gunite, and not just a bad plaster job. tstex had a good idea, using a third-party inspector to verify the work. But maybe both before and after the plaster? Someone that could certify there is nothing wrong with the gunite. I hate to say it, but I don't know that I'd trust the PB to do that, who is trying to get out of doing the repair correctly to be begin with. He's not going to be the one to go sniffing for a bad shell.

tstex also had a great idea about feeding the crews. Wish I had thought of that. You get all "this is $9000, they should earn it" when it is easy to forget, no, these guys are just workin' for $25 bucks an hour and since it is they that are actually doing the work, they need to be taken care of! For sure.
 
The owner of the company (also the head contractor) will be here for the plastering process. He says he has never had this problem before and wants to be here the entire time. The plaster crew comes of out Atlanta, GA which is about 4 hours from us. I bet they don't even make close to 25 an hour to be honest. We will definitely offer them food/drink as we really want to keep them happy. Plus, I feel pretty bad about how tired they must be to be on the road for 8 hours a day. We've gone out of our way many times to be helpful, and seem to have a pretty good rapport with the workers. As far as getting anyone out here to inspect anything, it's next to impossible. Took us multiple times to get just two bids for a pool. We live in a rural area without many resources. I'm a psych nurse so everyone just cross your fingers that my coworkers will not need to get a bed ready for me sometime soon..lol.

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socks,

I'm not sure of this, but a 4 hour+ drive "could" have something to do w it ??

I cannot remember if the gunite trucks come w the mixture already prepared or if it's mixed on site [feeback from TFP]. Either way, the mixture levels would definitely need to consider the 4 hr drive, then the resulting time it takes to shoot the gunite. If the water mixture is less, this would indeed invoke pre-drying. I would suspect that the plaster could have the same issues. This could be why some of the areas had pockets in it and were hollow bc the plaster was too dry and not able to fully settle in a uniform and consistent manner.

Again, this is just a supposition on my part, but I have a country place 60 miles from Houston and when they come to my place, they tell me that they add additional water to the cement trucks bc of the driving distance. I'm only 1 hr away, but 4 hrs away would definitely have an impact on how they mixed the water and concrete mixtures. Does anyone else have a thought on how the mixture and hydration of the gunite and plaster would need to be prepared for a 4 hr drive, site preparation and then 4-8 hrs of work? That's 8-12 hrs before everything is done from site origination...If so, I would surely have the gunite checked and see if it chips too easily bc it dry. W that gunite being too dry, it could certainly pull moisture from the plaster after it's applied, thus your issues. This is why when concrete is poured today, there's a plastic vapor barrier that prevents water from the concrete mixture to either leave or be penetrated from a very wet soil base. There can be no v-barrier btw your gunite and plaster. Therefore, both substrates must be in optimal conditions for uniform adherence. Also, when your gunite was shot, did you water the gunite shell 2-3 times per day for 7 days? if so, do you remember an absorption rate? If it cured too fast, there could be issues.

To conclude, not trying to raise any unnecessary red-flags, but see if there's a concrete person in your County that could come and inspect the gunite? If so, make sure he's a seasoned guy and if fully aware of all the issues, and if he's 100% comfortable in assisting you.

Good luck - tstex
 
tstex might be on to something there. Definitely sounds plausible. I sure do like the idea of a third-party set of eyes on this. I understand the distance barrier, and what it might cost to haul some guy out there. Tough one. But how else are you going to know that your gunite and plaster are good-to-go?

I have a vague recollection of seeing bags of plaster on the trucks in my front yard.* I think they were mixing on site. I think my pebble was mixed elsewhere, to get the color formula right, then added to the plaster on site. My crew was two hours away from my pool.

* I remember freaking out when I first saw the pebble going in, because it was soooo much lighter than my color choice. It looked like robin's egg blue! Yikes!! I ran out to the truck to see if I could find out what was going on! Turns out, it drys darker. Who knew...
 

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