Planning phase, have some questions about AGP install process

[rootusrootus]

I'm planning to install a Saltwater 8000 (or LX) from Pool Factory in the Spring. I have resigned myself to doing it myself because I can't find anyone to do it for me. Well, I got a quote from a Doughboy dealer but they wanted 13K total for the most basic Doughboy non-saltwater pool installed, excluding excavation. For that price I can buy an extra liner or two, or heck, an extra pool or two, in case I screw it up badly.

First -- is there a particular kind of contractor that is the best choice for excavation? My lot is pretty level, I could just use a tiller and a shovel to do a surface install, but I'd like to sink the pool 24 inches into the ground. Maybe a foundation excavator? I assume I should have a 23 foot hole for a 21 foot pool.

Second -- when leveling the pool, is it most critical that the paver stones the legs will be on are level, versus the rest of the ground? It seems like making sure the pavers are level and the rails have support under them is 99% of what's important, and the rest of the ground inside the pool is less important (not unimportant, mind you, but not quite as critical). Have I got this right?

Third -- how much of a deep spot in the middle is reasonable with a 21 foot pool? Can I get 60 inches (total) out of it? More? I assume I need an overlap expandable liner if I want to dish out the middle more than a couple inches. I'd like enough so that as a six foot tall adult I don't feel like I'm in a kiddie pool.

Fourth -- let's just say for a second that I f*ck up the leveling, I know I can't backfill dirt, but can a screw up like that be fixed by filling with some kind of crushed rock and then tamping it down? I'm going to try hard not to screw this up, but I like to know what I'm up against.

Fifth -- in the grand scheme of things, how hard of an install is this? If I get someone else to do most of the leveling with a machine, and I have a few extra hands to help put things together, is this reasonably a DIY job? I have done some home renovation, but never anything like a pool.

Sixth -- is it reasonable to run pipes underground and put all the equipment next to my air conditioner on the side of my garage? Probably be 20 feet of pipe. Sure would make it quieter, and easier to plumb the gas and electric since the meters for both are on the same wall 40 feet away.

Seventh -- would it be a good idea to try and put a main drain in? This seems hard to do in the first place, and especially difficult if I want to dish out the middle of the pool. Will it be fine if I don't have such a thing? Should I put in a return line on the other side of the pool? Is that even advisable with a saltwater pool with only one stainless panel?

Thanks for your help! I really want to make sure I have a good plan going into this so I don't spend too much time trying to work around my misconceptions. And I want to make my equipment purchase soon so I don't get caught up in the summer rush next year. I'm not kidding about buying an extra liner, too, just because it's not paranoia if they really are out to get you....

Dave

 

[Mdragger88]

Hey Dave !
You seem to have a pretty good plan/ have thought things through.
So i’ll try to hit your concerns one by one…

1- any experienced dirt guy should be fine, be sure to tell them it’s for a pool & yes - you want at least a foot of clearance leveled around the pool

2- it’s all pretty important as the cove base also has a job - keeping the liner inside the pool wall.
If it’s dirt base is too low the sand in the cove can be pushed out under the wall by the water weight of the liner thus creating a bubble of liner or worse, pinching it.

3- not sure how much u can dish out - it depends on if u have an overlap liner or not as well. To get what u want an expandable liner may be necessary.
Fwiw i have a 54” pool wall & my husband is 6’ - he has never complained about the depth. My water is 48” deep when filled a dab over 1/2 way up the skimmer mouth.

4- you would need to use “crusher run” & yes it would need to be tamped down.
Or
(better option)
you could dig maybe 21” or so & then have leeway to go further incase one spot is accidentally too low. The last inch or so is hand shoveling anyway.

5- It’s definitely doable - have a look around at some build threads on here & watch some YouTube videos of installs so u have an understanding of what’s involved etc.
The big issues i have seen with diy are generally leveling (so get/rent a transit/laser if u can)
& people underestimating the time it takes to assemble before even getting to the liner.
If the sun is going down don’t try to put the liner in.
The pros do it quickly so they are putting in the liner in the heat of the day (so it stretches well) & then there’s some water in the pool before nightfall supporting the walls. (You turn off the water at night.)
On assembly day You want it warm & sunny & not too breezy.
Start very early & if you only get the walls up before the sun wanes & need to stop you must brace the walls until u can begin again.
A surface install w/ foam cove, foam floor, & beaded liner is the quickest, most diy friendly way.

6- lots of people do this - double check the required clearances for your heater with your municipality. The same goes for the whole build permit wise. You would need to blow out the lines in the ground when winterizing & possibly use a little rv antifreeze instead of just removing hoses.

7a- main drain-
most above ground pools do not have a main drain. There are special considerations if u wish to have one. It is not necessary to have one.
7b- returns-
My pool has 2 returns- they are both in the stainless panel, inline , one is normal height & the other is about a foot from the bottom. It came this way. I wouldn’t go cutting into my new pool wall personally. What the pool comes with should be fine.
Especially only being 21’ round.
Mine is 33’ round so the extra circulation helps.
Any more questions just ask!

 

[rootusrootus]

That was super helpful, thank you for your reply! Lots of good information. Seems like all I do right now is research, research, research, I can't wait to have an actual pool to swim in. Not sure what I'll do with myself then.

 

[rootusrootus]

I was holding out for one last quote on an in-ground pool, but all it did was confirm that even if I wanted a small pool, the cost would *start* at 100K and go upward quickly. That's more than I'm willing to invest in this property, as I'm only planning on being here for another 10 years and then we're moving somewhere smaller (two people in a house this size would be absurd...). So, I started buying the pool parts, focusing first on the basics, so I don't end up competing in the Spring with everyone else getting the bright idea to put up a new pool.

I got a Saltwater LX, 21 foot round, upgraded 25 mil expandable liner so I can dish out the middle, an LED light that goes on the return, peel-n-stick foam cove, and a Pentair Classic Lil Shark pool cleaner. That last bit was just to push the total above $4000 so I could apply the $150 discount code. I was probably going to get it anyway, but this was convenient.

So, I still need to get a filter & pump, among other things. Dohenys sells a Harris VS pump that I'm interested in. 1.5hp, so plenty big, and three speeds. But ... I'm not sure how to turn that into a system. They sell cartridge filters "only" and then they sell systems that have the filter & pump, but none of those are spec'd with a multi-speed pump. I'm still trying to figure out what I should get. I think I understand that 1) for a small pool like this, 1hp is big enough, 2) at least a 2-speed pump is worth every penny, 3) the filter needs to be big enough to handle the GPM on the pump or bad things happen.

The next big purchase aside from the pump & filter is going to be a heater. From my research, I should be happy enough with 150K. Probably could go a bit smaller, in fact. My goal is to maintain temperature at comfortable levels for the season (which, in Oregon, isn't always guaranteed with just the sun, I think), extend the season a bit, and maybe even allow for an off-season Christmas pool party when temperatures are completely inappropriate (we do get snow occasionally, but mostly it just gets cold and wet here, and not icy for any length of time). With a couple days lead time, I *think* a 150K heater should be able to bring this pool up to a good temperature. Leaning towards a Raypak 156A natural gas.

Then there's the SWG. After all of my reading, my inclination is to get something from Circupool. I was thinking an RJ20+ would be perfectly adequate for this small pool, but I don't really see that I can save money by going with that instead of a RJ30+ for "only $10 more!" (seems to be a common theme with soom pool equipment retailers). The Hayward that Pool Factory wanted to sell me would be maybe $300 less, but it seems like the Circupool generators get more love.

Other than that, the rest is mostly accessories. I'm still pondering what kind of ladder/steps/whatever I want. I'll probably build a deck in the summer, but for a while I need to get in and out of the pool without it. And I have not worked out for sure if I'm going to put the pool into the ground beyond the 1 foot the front side will be sunk to counteract for the small slope. I skipped the pool cover from PF because I can get it just as cheap or less on Amazon, and no rush anyway.

If you have any thoughts on these questions, I thank you advance for sharing your wisdom!

 

[Mdragger88]

U have quite a plan!
Steps-
Whatever steps/ladder u pick it may need to be modified so it gets decent circulation, can be cleaned easily, & doesn’t harbor algae.
It seems no step/ ladder is immune - they all have some sort of issue so just be ready for that. I have wedding cake steps (my knees & cankles won’t let me do a ladder too much) . I drilled more holes in them with a hole saw to improve circulation. It took a little trial & error to determine where they needed to be , how many & how big but this season I haven’t had anymore gunk get in places I can’t reach after my last efforts with the drill.
Also don’t put sand in the steps/ladder - they all say to but DON’T DO IT! Find a completely sealed way to weigh them down that’s removable/detachable. Sealed bleach bottles or capped pvc filled with sand/concrete are favorites around here. Otherwise the algae grows & you need a crew to remove the steps cuz they are sooo heavy. The sand goes in easy but it doesn’t like to come out
I have a ballast in one of my steps & i put concrete in little containers & sealed them - then put them in there. I also have 4 bleach bottles of sand that i tie to the underside w/a rope or the steps will float around.
Swg-
The main reason for all the love w/ circupool around here, aside from customer service & good value per #of fc, is they are one of the most diy friendly (their warranty doesn’t penalize you for diy like other brands).
The $10 upgrade is also hard to pass up.
The bigger the swg the better - this equals less run time meaning your 10,000 hr cell life isn’t up for many years.
the average pool uses 2-4 ppm fc/day —with a vsp you could run on low for however many hours u want & just reduce the swg percentage here’s an example of what to expect based on your approximate volume with PoolMath effects of adding

Filter-
The bigger the filter the better as well- less filter cleaning/ more filtering. Most people have budget or space limitations that prevent them from getting one the size of a car YMMV

 

[Casey]

If I can install at least 7 above ground pools you can too!

Definitely skip the main drain. Just remember the more holes you cut in a liner the more leaks you possibly have to deal with.

 

[rootusrootus]

7? Did I read that right? SEVEN?! Dang! LOL

Any of them use an expandable liner?

The place I'm buying my hot tub from also does pools, and they used to install AGPs. They still do vinyl liners. They won't touch expandable, they say the failure rate during install is 1 out of every 3 or 4. And that's with experts installing, not homeowners DIYing it. Is it really that bad? I've watched videos and it looked tedious and required attention to detail, but it didn't look like magic.