pHin vs Keto-Ai water monitors.

[ciaka]

I have been researching water monitors, and narrowed down to two
1. pHin
2. Keto-Ai

Leaning towards Keto because it is solar (phin battery not replacable).
Keto has no subscription, and battery will die. Thus you must be subscribed continuously for 99 a year, to get free replacement once it happens.

Conversely, phin gives you simple advice to add stuff, when you get chemicals from them.
I havent seen details on this from Keto, but they say they dont have chemicals plan. So it means you get recommendations what to add. But you get your own.

Anyone on here use either? I would love to hear about both. Like the solar idea, vs waiting for batt. to die and pay 100 bucks a year for replacing.
Phin floats in pool. Keto installed in skimmer.

 

[Donldson]

Sorry to say that every single "smart" tester is exactly the same and none of them are worth getting. They test pH, temperature, and ORP. Due to CYA in the water (a requirement for outdoor pools) the ORP sensors are not accurate in the slightest at giving a chlorine reading, so what you end up with is a very expensive pH meter and thermometer.

Invest in a good test kit like the TF-100 or Taylor k-2006c and you'll have good quality data with which to manage your pool. Then you can get simple instructions via the PoolMath app, or just by asking us here.

 

[ciaka]

I dont believe either of these are orphans sensors. Other earlier ones were, but both manufacturers specify sensors not orp

 

[Donldson]

Both websites clearly specify that they use ORP:

Keto AI FAQ

The keto smart skimmer measures sanitizer and pH levels in your water. Sanitizer is measured through an ORP sensor, which is an advanced method to measure chlorine performance.

pHin FAQ

To understand if your preferred sanitizer is working properly, the pHin monitor uses an ORP sensor to measure the he water’s ability to break down (oxidize) contaminants.

 

[ciaka]

Oh, thanks for post. I could have sworn they specifically said not orp. I'll dig more. Thanks

 

[Bvacchiano]

Yeah don’t waster your money. My neighbor had the PHin. He junked it and said it was garbage. He now has the TF-100.

 

[ciaka]

I know pHin 1st gen was junk. From users. The latest gen made by company who bought them out, seems to have made strides in sensoe and firmemwate, as I have been inquiring g and gear nothing but food things in terms of accuracy.
They have plans for chemical purchase but I am sure will be more expebsive.
One thing I like is that they have lo g lust of other chemicals you can use (2nd gen device). Simply scan chemical bat code, if on list, will auto adjust to tell you how much to add
I havent heard as much on Keto since it is newer, but couple folks zI spoke to, swear by it, having owned pools for years.
Plus it has solar cell that charges unit in skimmer.
Phin batt. will die, then only option is replace at full price, or hope you had their 100 bucks a year plan for free replace.

When pool is done. they wwiwwilwwiwwill give mone oof the Taylor kits, and I do plan to learn everything.
But at same time, while I learn, I dont want to be spending 200 a month on pool guy.
Thinking of it as learn and backup tool.

 

[ciaka]

Why do folks say orp sensors are inaccurate? If they measure charge, sensors can detect millivolts easily, and can decipher meaning via firmware.
What other sensors are better.
As engineer, I see sensors that can detect microvolts.

Now, if people dump chemicals into skimmer, I can see how keto canmisdiagnose, but heard one should not put chemsinto skimmer.
Learning here, so please school me on sensors and how I should correct my thinking.
Thank you.

 

[mgtfp]

There are quite a few posts on ORP from JoyfulNoise and Chem Geek, just use the advanced forum search, limiting search results to posts from them. They deliver some very detailed explanations. One of the issues seems to be that ORP sensors don't really work in the presence of CYA.

Some forum members use WaterGuru and seem to be quite happy with that. Doesn't have the accuracy of FAS-DPD, but seems to be sufficient for daily water monitoring.

Are you planning to use an SWG for chlorination? IMHO that is the most efficient way to make a pool low maintenance.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

ORP measures the the oxidation potential (in mV) of water which is affected by many factors - oxidizer level, pH, alkalinity, temperature, UV light, etc, etc. It does not measure the concentration of hypochlorous acid directly. As well, because cyanuric acid stabilizer reduces the overall level of hypochlorous acid to parts per billion levels while holding the vast majority of chlorine in reserve, the electrode is left to try to measure a low level voltage signal in a highly noisy environment. As an engineer you should be able to appreciate the concept of signal-to-noise ratio. Finally, CYA tends to foul up and deposit onto the delicate gold covered glass frit that separates the internal solution of the probe from the pool water. That build up causes even more signal degradation.

ORP sensors are great in principal but fail in practice to live up to the marketing hype.

 

[Strotti]

Been in SW Florida - I tested Waterguru which is junk - send it back for refund - got Phin last week PH seems to work but chlorine not at all I guess ORP and Florida Sun/Heat doesn’t mix well - now my phin app shows me contact support all in a sudden which I did - No response yet - bought on amazon and can send it back without a problem - thoughts ??? Test strips or Phin ? ;-)

 

[mgtfp]

Test strips or Phin ? ;-)

The answer is easy: FAS-DPD and pH drop-test

Welcome to the Forum! What was the problem you were having with Waterguru? There a quite a few members here that seem to be quite happy with it as a supplement for daily monitoring to their FAS-DPD titration and pH drop-test.

Most folks here test their water with a TF-100 or a Taylor K-2006C:

Swimming Pool Test Kits Compared

What pool test kit should I buy? Why not use test strips? Our recommended test kits will pay for themselves in no time!

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[ciaka]

Emailed Keto AI for questions, around 2am this morning. They called me first thing am and inquired about what I wanted to onow.
After prolonged conversation, Keto offers water monitoring, at this time do not have instruction on what to add and when. Working on it now though.
They ate ready to release nifty auto water level solution too. Done testing, ready for roll out .
Conversely. Phin monitors water, gives you info on what to put in and how much of it.
Yes, I know I can test myself. I can go kill my own food too for dinner, but instead go to salt lick. Looking for something to reduce time involvement, that's all.

 

[Donldson]

Yes, I know I can test myself. I can go kill my own food too for dinner, but instead go to salt lick. Looking for something to reduce time involvement, that's all.

That's a pretty lacking comparison.

pHin and Keto monitor pH and ORP. ORP isn't very helpful for anything (as has already been explained), so they are both at best a decent pH meter.

To successfully manage your water you need to know:
Free Chlorine
Combined Chlorine
pH
Total Alkalinity
Calcium Hardness
Cyanuric Acid

So I'm curious where you think all of those numbers other than pH are coming from?