Pentair VSP - surging/spiking

[hamanbhatia]

My pool was in pool mode. I suddenly noticed my spillway act the way it does when it is the high speed mode. It did that for a few seconds and went back to it's normal state. Then I noticed this again after about 4 hours or so. This time I was paying more attention so I heard the pump increase in volume as well, confirming that it's spiking or priming, the way it does when it is started.

Any ideas why? And what can be done to check the reason and to eventually fix it?

 

[HermanTX]

Are you setting your pump based on GPM or RPM. If on GPM, the pump will ramp up speed to meet the set GPM setting. The flow can be affected as the filter captures more debris, or your skimmer basket becomes full.

 

[hamanbhatia]

Are you setting your pump based on GPM or RPM. If on GPM, the pump will ramp up speed to meet the set GPM setting. The flow can be affected as the filter captures more debris, or your skimmer basket becomes full.

RPM. And its been like this for months now (build was completed in Dec 2022)

 

[HermanTX]

RPM. And its been like this for months now (build was completed in Dec 2022)

You mention it has been like this for months and pool completed in Dec. 22 - so has the PB been contacted with any guidance?

Assuming that the pump is working properly, it appears to be a schedule conflict so need to know more info. Is your pump schedule directly on the pump or do you have an automation system that sets and controls the schedule and pump speed? Also, what is the specific model of the pump?

 

[hamanbhatia]

You mention it has been like this for months and pool completed in Dec. 22 - so has the PB been contacted with any guidance?

Assuming that the pump is working properly, it appears to be a schedule conflict so need to know more info. Is your pump schedule directly on the pump or do you have an automation system that sets and controls the schedule and pump speed? Also, what is the specific model of the pump?

I do have automation. Have contacted my PB but their office is closed right now. So will call tomorrow morning. It's almost like it's priming itself ever so often, once may be in 2-3 hours.

 

[hamanbhatia]

You mention it has been like this for months and pool completed in Dec. 22 - so has the PB been contacted with any guidance?

Assuming that the pump is working properly, it appears to be a schedule conflict so need to know more info. Is your pump schedule directly on the pump or do you have an automation system that sets and controls the schedule and pump speed? Also, what is the specific model of the pump?

I see some bubbles in the pump basket. Is that normal?

 

[mknauss]

I see some bubbles in the pump basket. Is that normal?

I only see two tiny ones. That is normal.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

bubbles are normal. That pump strainer is full of water so it’s fine.

There are couple of advanced settings on the IntelliFlo’s with regard to pump priming, max speeds, etc. One of those setting is “PRIME SENSITIVITY” that can be adjusted so that the pump doesn’t react to changes in flow, pressure, and power that might make it think it needs to prime. This is a setting that should only be adjusted when you are absolutely sure that you’re pump is not losing prime and that there are no other hydraulic issues like a dirty filter, blockages, etc.

 

[hamanbhatia]

I only see two tiny ones. That is normal.

What could be wrong then? I checked the filter pressure as well, was normal.

 

[hamanbhatia]

bubbles are normal. That pump strainer is full of water so it’s fine.

There are couple of advanced settings on the IntelliFlo’s with regard to pump priming, max speeds, etc. One of those setting is “PRIME SENSITIVITY” that can be adjusted so that the pump doesn’t react to changes in flow, pressure, and power that might make it think it needs to prime. This is a setting that should only be adjusted when you are absolutely sure that you’re pump is not losing prime and that there are no other hydraulic issues like a dirty filter, blockages, etc.

What could be causing this other than the setting? No settings have been changed since the construction was completed in Dec 2022. Checked the filter pressure as well, was normal..

 

[JoyfulNoise]

What could be causing this other than the setting? No settings have been changed since the construction was completed in Dec 2022. Checked the filter pressure as well, was normal..

It may not have been an issue when the pool was first constructed and turned on. Pentair usually sets the sensitivity to max out of the factory and PB’s rarely know anything about it or they never adjust it. I had to adjust mine shortly after the pool was built as the initially priming sequence was ridiculously long and the pump would run at max speed for several minutes for no good reason. I wound up not only lowering the max speed but also reducing the sensitivity so that the pump would only prime for about 20secs or so at startup.

Also, you can’t always go by filter pressure because many modern filters have such low head loss that their pressures change very little.

When was the last time that the filter was taken apart and cleaned?

 

[hamanbhatia]

It may not have been an issue when the pool was first constructed and turned on. Pentair usually sets the sensitivity to max out of the factory and PB’s rarely know anything about it or they never adjust it. I had to adjust mine shortly after the pool was built as the initially priming sequence was ridiculously long and the pump would run at max speed for several minutes for no good reason. I wound up not only lowering the max speed but also reducing the sensitivity so that the pump would only prime for about 20secs or so at startup.

Also, you can’t always go by filter pressure because many modern filters have such low head loss that their pressures change very little.

When was the last time that the filter was taken apart and cleaned?

The build was completed in December 2022. So hasn't been taken apart even once.

 

[HermanTX]

What could be wrong then? I checked the filter pressure as well, was normal.

Can you give the model number of the pump? It is on side of the pump with the serial number. Also, what is your make and model of automation?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

The build was completed in December 2022. So hasn't been taken apart even once.

I suggest you clean the filter. It’s been 6 months since the build and any new pool has lots of debris in it especially if it’s a plaster pool with plaster dust. Most new pools need their filters cleaned within a few weeks to clean out all the junk they collect.

With the pump off for filter cleaning, you can also check the impeller of the motor to make sure it’s clean and there’s nothing tangled in it.

I also suggest checking the settings to make sure the priming sensitivity isn’t set to max. It’s unnecessary in most circumstances to have it at the factory setting.

 

[hamanbhatia]

Can you give the model number of the pump? It is on side of the pump with the serial number. Also, what is your make and model of automation?

011056. Automation is ScreenLogic. Does that help?

 

[hamanbhatia]

I suggest you clean the filter. It’s been 6 months since the build and any new pool has lots of debris in it especially if it’s a plaster pool with plaster dust. Most new pools need their filters cleaned within a few weeks to clean out all the junk they collect.

With the pump off for filter cleaning, you can also check the impeller of the motor to make sure it’s clean and there’s nothing tangled in it.

I also suggest checking the settings to make sure the priming sensitivity isn’t set to max. It’s unnecessary in most circumstances to have it at the factory setting.

Cleaning the filter is what the PB told me to do as well. My concern is even after the filter is cleaned, it is very difficult for me to confirm that everything is working fine, unless I sit by the pool all day waiting for it to happen again.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Cleaning the filter is what the PB told me to do as well. My concern is even after the filter is cleaned, it is very difficult for me to confirm that everything is working fine, unless I sit by the pool all day waiting for it to happen again.

Yeah. Intermittent problems like that can be a pain. You should clean the filter and then just wait and see what happens. If it continues to occur even after the filter is clean then I suggest you look at adjusting the priming sensitivity.

 

[Jimrahbe]

011056. Automation is ScreenLogic. Does that help?

H,

I like the idea of cleaning your filter, but here are a couple of others things you can do..

1. Put the system in the Service mode and use the pump's control panel to find what F/W is loaded into the pump. If it turns out to be 3.03 or 3.04, that F/W has a known bug for an intermittent com port issue. The pump may be going into the priming mode because it 'thinks' it is just starting up.

2. Show me your ScreenLogic Schedules for a day.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[JamesW]

Are you getting any Alerts or Warnings?

Maybe it is detecting loss of Prime?

The pump has many settings that are adjustable.

I would turn off Priming unless you really need it.

Can you check all of these settings and report what they are?

Set Maximum System Pressure

Set Maximum Flow Rate (GPM)

Set Flow Limit for Speed Program

Set Pressure Limit for Speed Program

Set Ramping Rate

Priming Features

Max Priming Duration

Priming Range

Priming Delay

Priming Speed

Loss of Prime

Disabled/Enabled Default: ENABLED

Allows IntelliFlo® VSF Variable Speed and Flow Pump to automatically detect if pump if is primed for startup.

The pump will speed up to 1800 RPM and pause for three (3) seconds - if there is enough water in the basket, the pump will go out of priming mode and run the commanded speed.

Default: 11 minutes

The maximum priming time can be set from 1 - 30 minutes.

This setting is the amount of time the pump will try to prime before it gives a priming error.

If this occurs, fill the pump basket with water and restart the pump.

Default: 20 seconds

Priming delay can be set from 1 second to 10 minutes.

When a pump ramps to full priming speed in an attempt to establish a prime, priming delay allows the pump to operate at that speed for an additional set period of time prior to continuing on to the requested or scheduled program.

Default: 5

Priming range can be set from 1-10. The smaller the range, the more water the pump has to be moving to detect that it is primed.

At larger ranges, the pump will detect that it is fully primed while moving less water.

If the range is set too high, then the pump may exit Priming mode before it has fully primed.

The range will automatically adjust with the priming set speed because the flow rates of the pump will be lower at lower speeds.

Default: 3450 RPM

The priming speed can be set between 2400 RPM and 3450 RPM.

If the pump is on an equipment pad that is close to the water level, it will not need to run at 3450 RPM to successfully prime.

The setting can be lowered to prevent running at a higher speed than necessary.

Day to day factors (i.e. local ambient pressure, water/air temperatures, amount of water retained from last system run) can affect priming performance.

Because of the frequently changing nature of these factors the priming speed should be set high enough to accommodate environmental and mechanical changes to ensure that the pump can successfully prime.

Finding the most effective and efficient speed for your specific needs may take careful testing and evaluation of priming performance.

PRIMING

MENU

Default: Enabled

This feature allows the pump to recognize unanticipated low-flow or no-flow situations while running a program.

For example, the pump will pause for one (1) minute after detecting that it has lost its prime unexpectedly.

After this pause the pump will attempt to prime, and if prime is successful it will continue programmed operation. If priming is not successful the pump will continue attempting to prime, per normal priming operation, until a prime is achieved or priming error occurs and is displayed.

https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/nam/pentair-pool/residential/pumps/archive/intelliflo-vsf/intelliflo-vsf-om-eng.pdf

 

[hamanbhatia]

Yeah. Intermittent problems like that can be a pain. You should clean the filter and then just wait and see what happens. If it continues to occur even after the filter is clean then I suggest you look at adjusting the priming sensitivity.

You think there could be a leak - air or water?