Pentair Superflo VSP suction side air leak

[Juggernaut1103]

hey everyone, so i've been searching for a while on the forum, and cant seem to find anything that details the same issue im having. I just replumbed all new equipment, i had to use a barb fitting to go from 1.5in black poly to 2 inch PVC. i'm having the opposite effect with my VSP that most have. Since the pump is below the water of the pool I never have priming issues. The pump runs great up to 2100-2200 RPM. The problem is when I connect the vac to the skimmer, or try to up the RPM's I start to get lots of bubbles, and a lot of water disturbance in the basket area, which leads to the water level going down to the inlet. This clearly indicates a suction side leak, but i find it weird that it only happens in certain situations and im not getting air other times, besides one small bubble that sits at the lid that doesn't grow or shrink. I took a small rubber hammer to the lid to make sure it was totally locked in place (pentair makes it hard to get it all the way tightened closed)The previous pump was a dinosaur, 1Hp which ran at 3400 RPM, never really had any crazy air issues except small air bubbles when the vac was running, the old cover looked like it could have cracks in it, so never thought anything about the bubbles, and figured it was a small leak in the lid. Is this indicative of an underground leak, or just a really small one somewhere? Starting to wonder if i should just buy a dolphin cleaner and never run over 2100RPM. I included a picture of the pad, maybe someone sees something i don't know about. Welcoming all comments and suggestions for getting this worked out.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jug,

I like your new layout!!!

I would forget the vacuum issue for a moment and work on just the high RPM issue..

Since your pool level is above the pump, it seems if you had a leak of any kind it would be a water leak...

If your pump runs out of water as you increase speed, then the first place to look would be Skimmer Weir door being stuck up and/or the water level being too low. When you run the pump at a high RPM, does the water in the skimmer look like a toilet bowl flushing??? If so, that is the problem.

Another issue could be that your underground pipe has collapsed and now the pump can't draw enough water through the pipe..

My main problem is I can't think of where air could be entering the system with the pump on, that would not a water leak when the pump is off???

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[GuardianOcean]

I have the same pump. I just fixed my suction side leak after 1 week of pain. I tried plastic wrap. Shaving cream. Silicone. I also had a downstream pump and considered running it without prime. But after investing 900 bucks in a pump I didn't want to ruin it. I ended up finding the problem was a cracked pipe under the earth and a not tight burbed joint. I suggest shaving cream on burned joints. You may not see a dimple but when u pull out joint (if you can) you can clearly see shaving cream got pulled in. Also turn pump down really low and use food coloring. Different color for each joint. It can work not usually if it's small leak and water moves fast it just get diluted. Process of elimination. Buy a length of flex pvc and attach it directly the pump skipping the plumbing and drop it in your pool. If you still have air then you know its your pump and not lines. Best of luck. It's a real pain.

 

[lshonda310]

hate to say this, but all your elbows are DWV (drain waste vent) fittings and shouldn't be used for pressure. Might not have any problems, but eventually they could come apart under pressure.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Is,

While what you says is technically correct I have yet to see it happen... The "pressure" in a pool system is usually less than 30 lbs. and with a VS pump, my guess his pressure most of the time will be less than 5 PSI...

In my mind this is much more of a theoretical problem than an actual problem.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[lshonda310]

Is,

While what you says is technically correct I have yet to see it happen... The "pressure" in a pool system is usually less than 30 lbs. and with a VS pump, my guess his pressure most of the time will be less than 5 PSI...

In my mind this is much more of a theoretical problem than an actual problem.

Thanks,

Jim R.

not a problem I am willing to risk and have no water left in the pool, especially with my lack of experience glueing pvc, I might not get it glued as good as it should, and with half the engagement of DWV I might have a problem.
The situation may come up when the pump is running full speed and the filter is getting plugged, the pressure could get to 30 psi, I know my brother-in-laws single speed pump sees 20 psi under normal running in his canister filter housing.

 

[Juggernaut1103]

Thanks for all the replies, this is a real bummer because i have people coming over this coming weekend and the pool floor is a mess.

Jim- Thanks for the compliment Jim, i try to make sure all my work looks top notch (minus the stupid DMV mistake) The dreaded Wier door, i spent 3 weeks trying to figure out why my pump isn't holding prime last year (made no sense with the pool being higher above), i took everything apart at the pad a few times, then randomly stumbled upon the issue and it fixed everything. My water level while the pump is off is halfway up the skimmer, ill crank the pump up when i get home tonight, and see what it looks like, and add water if needed. My thought is i'm not that lucky of a guy for it to be that easy of a fix, and it wouldn't make sense to have the same issue with the vacuum hose connected to the skimmer, unless there is a break in the hose somewhere. I will be devastated if its a pipe collapse, i just redid the flagstone patio and poly sanded everything. took me two summers to get it all done, if i had to rip a big section back up, I might lose my mind, better yet i would probably just fill the pool in and make it one big bluestone patio, lol.

LSHONDA- I actually had already started a thread after I plumbed everything about my bonehead mistake of using DMV fittings. Everyone basically said leave it as it. I'm not saying im not worried about it. the couplings were dmv as well, i just don't feel like shelling out $80 for two new jandy valves and then spending the hours to lengthen pipe to make it all look nice again. i still have a long to do list with another kid expected in August. It would only drain down to the skimmer and i believe pentair has an auto shut off for loss of prime as well. its in my plans to redo in the future.

Guardian- glad to hear you got your situation fixed. I would love to test the pump and run flex PVC up to the pool, but the pump is behind the shed, then there is a retaining wall (6ft) up to a patio where the pool is, it would be a bit tricky, and wouldn't be fun trying to get 220 up there from the panel. I plan to try the food coloring out at some point, im kind of starting to think it may just be one of the barb fittings (hopefully the one i just worked with) there is no way for me to see if its leaking water let alone pulling in air, but who knows, i wish there was an easy way to make sure those sealed better. I just moved 100 cinder blocks on top of where those are located under ground as well, so it'll be fun moving all those again.

 

[lshonda310]

LSHONDA- I actually had already started a thread after I plumbed everything about my bonehead mistake of using DMV fittings. Everyone basically said leave it as it. I'm not saying im not worried about it. the couplings were dmv as well, i just don't feel like shelling out $80 for two new jandy valves and then spending the hours to lengthen pipe to make it all look nice again. i still have a long to do list with another kid expected in August. It would only drain down to the skimmer and i believe pentair has an auto shut off for loss of prime as well. its in my plans to redo in the future.

congrats on your to do date in August! My wife and I were married 15 years before we had our first kid, not sure why we waited so long!
Glad that it would only drain down to skimmer level

 

[Juggernaut1103]

Looks like I’m buying a dolphin. Can’t find the suction side leak above ground, and we are having a party Friday. Need to get the pool clean. I guess I’m just going to leave it as is since it works fine at 2100 or below rpm. No need to go above that with a robot to clean the pool. I plan to replace all the piping at some point anyway since it’s over 50 years old and all metal and poly flex. Thanks for the suggestions everyone.