Pentair IntelliFlo or SuperFlo?

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GJB said:
Are you thinking that a breaker will trip and protect the pump when the surge is over 10Kva Sammy? If that's true than then 80Kva surge protector doesn't necessarily help? I don't know the answer by the way just trying to understand what you wrote...Hopefully CJ will know. I suspect if that was true there would be no need for protectors since the breakers would protect the circuits. Don't know if they can trip in the time frame that CJ mentioned above though.

On another note. One thing I did not think about with the pump choice. The spa is actually raised up above the pool. I would say maybe 3 ft between the top of the waterline of the spa and the top of the pools waterline. Normal operation has the return water mostly going to the pool but with maybe 10% going back to the spa to keep it refreshed. It overflows back into the pool down the tile. Will the smaller pump be OK with that requirement? I mean at the lower RPM's for circulation and thus power savings.
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No. I'm thinking that the breaker will fail with a surge over 10kVa and the surge will pass right through. It is a matter of risk tolerance and percentage of surges above that we get. We don't have lightening storms like in FL or the midwest out here so the percentage of surges above 10kVa is much lower than in those areas.

Again, I could be wrong on this as the 10kVa AIC rating on the breaker could be the protection against surge from the protected equipment itself and not what's on the line so to speak. I'm looking into it for sure but am not sure of the value of an extra surge protection in an area where the incidence of surges on the line is lower.

As far as the pump goes on low circulation during normal runs, it should be fine. I plan on having mine run full speed when using the pool for entertainment but not during normal filtration, cleaning and salt generation. I'll run it longer at low speed during these times. If you're concerned about cleaning the the cascading fall over the tile (exactly what I have too) then run it for just an hour at full speed every day to flush that clean. I'll have more to report next weekend after it is installed but already was thinking I might do this for 30 to 60 minutes a day to not only put more water over the but more likely run the pressure side kreepy krawler and still save money. With a longer run time, I think that the cascade will stay clean though, just not as much noise from water splash.

BTW, my current pump puts out about 10% more flow than the SuperFlo will do when at full flow. The IntelliFlo actually puts out a little bit more than my current pump when at full flow but I had to make a decision on how much more to spend for the pump and automation. I went with the slightly smaller SuperFlo and think it'll work fine.
 
In line surges you aren't as concerned with the amps so much as the voltage. The excess voltage is really what does the damage to the printed circuit boards and chips in modern electronics. What the surge protector does is start to bleed off voltage to ground after it raises a certain percentage over normal up until it becomes a full dead short to ground. Which in this case for this unit its 20 amps @ 4000 volts (20Ax4000V= 80Kva). Even if the the breaker were to trip in this case that amount of voltage would blow right past the open breaker seeking the path to ground provided by the surge protector.

When you get a lightning strike near by the extreme EM fields generated by the lightning can induce a voltage into the wires that is many many times over the normal 220v that you house is supplied with. This excess voltage finds its way into printed circuit boards and causes all kinds of damage by generating arcs across circuit pathways only designed to handle very small voltages. These arc pathways can cause permanent shorts in the circuits of the boards making them nothing more than silicon garbage.

This is a very over simplified explanation and does not cover all the failure modes generated by surges.

The proper way to install the device I linked to is to wire it to its own 20 amp 2 pole breaker in your pool power panel. Or in your main service panel or both if you are feeling ambitious.

The surges from lightning strikes is only one example. There are lots of ways to generate lines surges you will never see or know happened that a surge protector will help mitigate. The simple switching on and off of motors in your home such as AC units, refrigerators, washing machines, dryers and pool/well pumps can cause surges in your own house. On a larger scale Large industrial motors in the plant across town can be cause surges on the grid. Accidents involving telephone polls are another great cause of surges. Failed utility transformers another highly likely cause. Don't get fixated on lightning as the only cause or the over all current ratings on this class of device. Its there to quietly do its job to protect you from the everyday things that happen to the utility grid that you have no idea are going on.
 
Okay, so a basic breaker is good for 10kVa or 500 Volts, not much more than line voltage really. Putting in one of these increases that to 4000 volts. what is the voltage of a typical lightning strike? I found an article linked from the SquareD site on this and it was somewhat useful but it was talking about percentage over the threshold in FL during an extreme event which is not CA for sure. It is about risk tolerance and cost vs benefit. What level of risk is tolerable at what cost. If your tolerance is lower then a surge protector is a good idea. I have them combined with UPS in three locations in my house but other electronics are less valuable so I don't bother with anything other than a plug in surge protector which is pretty weak. This pump, OTOH, is going to cost in the area of $1,000 after installation so my risk tolerance is a little less and without the surge protector it is totally unprotected unlike, say, the patio TV which is protected by a plug in surge protector at least. Where to stop though? My two AC compressors and associated FAU's are not protected. Neither are my utilitarian appliances like Refrigerator, Washer, Dryer and Dishwasher, each not very cheap and probably would all be taken out at the same time. Then theres the 9kva solar photovoltaic system Should I protect all of these too? Should I get something to protect my 200 amp main instead? That means something with a 200amp x 4000v = 800kva surge protection which I'm sure would be quite spendy to install. Hmm..
 
You don't install multiple devices per panel. The single device per panel will give you a moderate lvl of protection to the devices connected to that panel. The argument for having another at your pool panel is that you will have an additional layer of protection for you pool equipment much the same way you have by using a ups or surge protector strip to plug in your electronics. If you are able to nutralize a major surge in steps before it gets to the device you have improved your chances of that device surviving. Again though a surge is caused by many events that happen every day and are out of anyone especially control. They can happen as quickly as 1/120th of a second (half cycle )and don't need to be anywhere near the dramatic event of a lightning strike to cause damage. There is also no way to predict if any given surge will damage a device. Everytime it happens you roll the dice and the protection device helps to put the odds in your favor. But this is getting far off topic so if you have more questions maybe a pm is in order or a new thread.
 
Check. I am not disagreeing and know it can come from anywhere such as a transformer blowing. I'm just pointing out that it may not always be necessary to have surge protection but the OP asked about it so it isn't too much OT.

The linked device is only good for 20 amps so it is one of the other ones that would be required to do that so this particular one is just for the pump.
 
Surge protectors clamp voltage not current (amps). Saying that the device only protects for 20amps is inaccurate. It offers protection for 80 kva (volts x amps) maximum instantaneous energy surge. The one we have been referring to is considered adequate protection for your average home main service panel.
 
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